T8 LED Light Tube, 4ft, 22W(48W Equivalent) 2310 Lumens, 6000K Daylight, Single-Ended Power Frosted Cover, that uses non shunted and removes the ballast seems to be the most efficient.
I have done the house , and the China bought stuff toasted out , So i bought all Bosch German type & 4 years later were still great.
My shops are 15 8 foot units(200W/lamp) (hanger) 20 4foot(100W/lamp) (wood, garden shed,electrical/auto & barn).
Im thinking if I supply them with 220Vac I get a better wave & more efficient.
They rate them as 100Vac-277Vac .
During the summer the lights are on when Im trying to keep my fingers still attached or working in them, come the winter they are on when Im in the shop/ s.
I see many on Amazon /E-bay but im thinking many are selling offshore ready to toast out after a few months.
This will be expensive , I know
Thanks for any direction Or !
VT
Lumens per watt, is about even now Fluorescent vs LED ( 85 Lumens per watt)
PLASMA Lamps @ 114 L per watt (Light Emitting Plasma (LEP))
LED lifetime is getting better
But the driver circuit/ballast is going to be the energy factor. Cheap systems have very low power factor
so that your 22w light will really be pulling 35w. Get enough crummy ballasts together and you overload the
system.
nice (long) article :
http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/html/emailnewsletter_generators.html#anchorPrinciples%20of%20Operation
images illustrates the poor power factor:
(http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/images/generators/sinewave_phase_displacement.jpg)
(http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/images/generators/Plasma_PowerWaveform.jpg)
Thanks Mike, Lots of good info .
I watched / read a few things about Titan LED USA built & all .
(http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/images/generators/PF_Bear_Analogy.jpg)
The favorite analogy electricians like to use to explain these terms is that if Apparent Power is a glass of beer, Reactive Power is the foam that prevents you from filling it up all the way, so that you are left with less beer or Ture Power. In other words, the thirst-quenching portion of your beer is represented by KW in the figure above. The foam is represented by KVAR. The total contents of your mug, KVA, is this summation of KW (the beer) and KVAR (the foam). In our beer mug analogy, Power Factor (P.F.) is then the ratio of Beer (True Power) to the entire volume of the mug (beer plus foam or Apparent Power.)
(http://www.screenlightandgrip.com/images/generators/PF_Beer_Equation.jpg)
Thus, for a given KVA: the more foam you have (the higher the percentage of KVAR), the lower your ratio of KW (beer) to KVA (beer plus foam). Thus, the lower your power factor. Or, the less foam you have (the lower the percentage of KVAR), the higher your ratio of KW (beer) to KVA (beer plus foam). In fact, as your foam (or KVAR) approaches zero, your power factor approaches 1.0. When lights with a low power factor are used, a generator must be sized to supply the apparent power (beer plus foam), even though only the beer (true power) counts as far as how much actual drinking is possible.
Edit add , took me awhile to find the video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icoObJaZJSE
https://youtu.be/icoObJaZJSE?t=1m56s
Start at 1:56 and owner states SMD (Surface Mounted Diode )with a "Smart Driver" with a PF of .9 !!
So thats what I have so far , but reading your link Mike looks like there is lots to learn,
He said his 4 foot tubes were in the 73-78 $ range .
VT
Hi,
I have fitted 10 led fluro tubes with their ballast free frames in my house and my sons as we were building it.
They are only 18watt draw and I went for the stark arctic type light as I am older an the light is "crisper".
To be honest the frames are light and super tinny and if I had not been so lazy I should have just rewired the original fluro tube frames.
The tubes are AEG and I have not had a failure since installing them.
The costs was $100 for 10 frames and $100 for 10 led tubes including postage.
Power consumption is minimal and the main feature I like is the light comes on when you switch it on and no blinking and pounding of the ballast switch is heard.
Our walls are all [painted white so the light supplied is more than adequate in the houses.
How long they will last I have no idea, but I will be buying a couple more cartons of tubes soon to store away.
That was off evil bay australia in regard to the purchase.
Well after i bought a few quick just swap in units , no rewiring etc
Standard t-8 in 5600K daylight units Give great light that uses 48W or 47VA on a kill-a-watt unit using twin tubes .
So the LED units that just pop in and the ballast stays & the tube holder (tombstones ) are not replaced .
From box stores are CRAP !!!
43 watts usages but the lamp is brown 4000k and is NOT 360* lamp ..
I gave it 120V ac & it was close to the right light & used 188 W , got hot & smelt like done!
VT
I have the rewiring style on order , so we will see.
I've used the led replacement 4foot lamps (where you need a T8 ballast) and have had no trouble with them. 36 lamps so far. These are not cheap, $27cdn per lamp. My experience with lighting is you get what you pay for. Cheap cfl, cheap led, cheap fixtures = more money spent than if you bought the better stuff first time.
Ralph
Ok, I bought cheaper led tubes (AEG) and my bases are super tinny!
But it has been over 18 months now and all tubes are still super crisp and bright and have performed very well.
I will be buying more of the same and storing away for the future.
Quote from: russ_drinkwater on July 09, 2016, 05:45:25 PM
Ok, I bought cheaper led tubes (AEG) and my bases are super tinny!
But it has been over 18 months now and all tubes are still super crisp and bright and have performed very well.
I will be buying more of the same and storing away for the future.
These were Costco 2 for 27.00 beans.
Green boxes 2 tubes/box but 4900K (yellow) or warm white .
Ok,
AEG tubes 6500K stark white $10 AU a tube.
Mounts were $10 each and really light grade, but functional.
Russ
i obtained a t8 fixture and placed 2 cheap led tubes from home depot into it last january. it's been operating just fine, but if my eyes aren't playing tricks on me i noticed a slight change in it to a slightly lower degree k temperature after about a month. i'm fine with that even if it did so as the light output is strong.
i also took a chance and replaced an old 4 tube 4ft fixture with a straight led fixture from home depot, no tubes. i'm amazed at the light output from something just under 20w. it is more shadowy due to only one line of a light source because 4 tubes eliminate shadows much better than 1 line of leds could. it's very bright and it maintained its temperature btw.
i don't remember their costs, but i was going broke replacing 4ft fluorescents constantly, not to mention failing ballasts. the leds are great and saving a tad of electric is good too.
It has been over 2 years for me and not one problem or tube failure!
I am super happy to say the least. :D
Love that instant light when the switch is tripped and no waiting for the pulsing to stop and wonder if the tube is actually going to fire up!
Agreed , But If i buy , I need to make sure .
I did LED 6 years + ago & the china stuff was 50/50 & then i went looking into house dead draw (doorbells & built in vacuums plus ) Dropped 50 watts for something we never used.
Can only say what I have experienced. As I said before I will be buying a couple more boxes (20 tubes) and another 10 mounting frames.
Spares and kit part of mum's house out as well.
Thanks Russ & Neil
I bought a few straight NO Ballast units from USA suppliers & a few Titan ones (expensive ) BUT !! Im looking for low watt draw & power factor plus nice ugly bright 6000K light . This is for my wood shop & my Hanger mechanical shop 10Ksq' that needs to be well lit . Still have all digits & opposing thumbs.. then I'll do the tractor / garden shed and the other out buildings .
Trying to idle the ranch down to 300w/off mode , getting close
At my age everything idles back a bit except for my desire for things that cost more cash than I have had before!
Enjoy your 18 watt draw lights! ;)
so how are they working out for you cdn vt?
Neil , Im not there yet ,
Ranch has me up @5am & it's 2230 & its lights out .
My next trip down is sept to pick up USA stuff .
Nite all , & Be Safe
VT
I have 100 units ordered and 48 of another in full feed of 230Vac 60~ and each tube uses 18.7 w or 21.6 w in full spectrum.
My next items I need is to find the center mount for 8 foot unit to mount 4 tombstone's in the center of the 8 footers .
These tubes make you remove the ballast & that cut's 5 watt per lamp / tube ..
got the adapters for the T12 8' fixtures & will convert to 4x4 or 2x4' style .
I read that the 8' ones will over time sag & fall out if not clipped up , so ?? decide to go all 4'
VT
@Neil
https://www.eledlights.com/leds-by-application/rebate-eligible-lights/t8-uhl-4ft-led-light-dlc.html#.V-CCvo6wnTR
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018I18K9A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AWAF1NHJQCE18
hi cdn-vt. that's quite a number of them and to be converted over to 4ft from 8ft is some work. i think in retrospect my 4ft led tubes are probably drawing the 18w x 2 plus the 5w for the ballast. it's still better than the fluorescent draw with ballast and i don't have to replace the darn things every year or 2.
i hadn't heard of that sag problem. maybe a physical hanger could've relieved the stress in the middle?
as to the tombstones, i saw some at lowes for $2.05 u.s. Item # 89198 Model # 2510W-BOX
that will be expensive with that many lights to convert maybe you should find a big electrical outlet that can get you a quantity.
let us know how the progress is going and of course if it works in the end.
The salesman I spoke to knew about having the 8 footers sag in hot areas .
I decide to go straight 4 footers and the ballast to be removed to save power & on some areas I probably won't need that much light , so if you see the metal fixture adapters , you can have a 4x4 setup in the 8 footers or only two x4'.
Wood shop , metal shop & Hanger . I'll use a genie lift for a few days im thinking ,& i'll work live .
VT
Quote from: niel on September 19, 2016, 09:54:02 PM
hi cdn-vt. that's quite a number of them and to be converted over to 4ft from 8ft is some work.
let us know how the progress is going and of course if it works in the end.
@Neil
The Kitchen lamp box I did but the 4 X 4 @ 6500k & 22 watts each are incredible over the full spectrum 32W t-8s ..
So i kinda knew that would be overboard ,I had purchased chain pull switches so I could limit the amount of tubes on 1 ,2,3 or all four & thats when the wife is in processing mode .
As for the shops /hangers I will do similar of letting the pull chain switch let me have a choice of the amount or if I need all lit.
Trying to take a picture is useless ,But those 8 foot adapter plates to the 4 footers are GREAT .
From a 20.8 Amp down to a 9.amp draw & way brighter light.
After a few hours of one quad set running I had to go back and add in a pull chain switch to knock out two bulbs ,for the area is used sometimes , those LED tubes were not even warm , pulling ballasts that I just cut the hot wire & cap , everything is hot & the ballast I let cool .
JFI
VT
Added pix & in the MECH room , don't hit squat
sounds great and the pull strings will give you an added measure of control over the lighting needed. lots of work, but it'll save you down the road just in replacing the old fluorescents that would burn out prematurely or flicker. the lower electrical consumption is also great. i can tell from the pics that the tubes have a high operating temp. my tubes are more into the yellow range, but that's ok by me. i guess that's typical for the cheaper straight up replacements. even cariboocoot replaced some of his with the leds and had the same observation i had on operating temp. yes, i still keep in contact with him.
do you have a pic or link to the adapter plates that you got?
Yes I do Sir & i'll post the stuff I bought to do the conversion here & PM you it also Plus my E-mail for the unicorn ;)
We must all help & work together , since were on a upward battle to stay ahead.
VT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Retrofit-Kit-8-2-Bulb-T12-Light-Strip-8-T8-4-Lamp-Fluorescent-Fixture-/182221579148?hash=item2a6d40a38c
Good kit to use. I updated 30 8' units of all ages .
Im 3/4 the way done !! after all of that I need to CLEAN , DIRT from being dark .
nice kits. about how long to convert one 8 footer? of course i ask only out of curiosity as i've no 8 footers to worry about. after my bathroom fixture fails i'll put in more leds. it's currently got t-12s in it. i may even still have a few tubes left so it may be awhile. the fixture i bought for my kitchen, as small as it is and at <20w, may be overkill for it. even the fact the fixture is physically smaller means i'll have to paint where i didn't have to before. the price for progress i guess. i hope there's not too much paint built up there or i may need to taper it with some spackling.
you called me sir? i'm not used to respect and you humble me. you don't have to call me sir.
No Worries
Sir is From how I have read your posts .
& Again no worries .
Well conversion was all done hot & on while I was on a Genie , Ballasts you need a leather welding glove to hold the heat of the ballast & im a VT as in Avatar so heat is in my work .
Single unit was 30 min , but gangs or row lighting, you need to know the feed source power input area . Working hot is ok , but the knowing of dead all along plus as Im also adding in chain pull switches etc.
Normal structure was all 4'X4 tubes on above benches & then where machines moored or areas of setup / jigs (flat & special area , only used for a major job etc) them fixtures could be on only 1/2 of the tubes so 1/2 the light & power usage .
When needed & that area had a Machine there , you could add the other 2 lamps on the 8 footer so it was 4X4' tubes plus the other string that has been off since that area is only for rigging setup of flight controls .
Hope the coot responds . WB is also in his AO
VT
so are you all done with the conversions yet or do you have more to go? as i said you put allot of work into doing this, but the reward is great.
call me dumb, but what did you mean here, "WB is also in his AO"? coot will not come on here to post as he said he doesn't have any midnite products and as such would feel out of place. i think he's a bit burned out and miffed from naws anyway as i can relate to a degree. not the folks here at midnite's fault in any way. btw, david l. of naws did apologize to me for how i was treated by both the naws forum in general and even by him, 6 months after i had quit. coot never got an apology and i was the only one to back him up for the wrongs done to him. this is water over the dam, but shows where he stands for posting on forums to help people ever again. he's up to his ears with other issues anyway as am i, but i still pop in here as the people at midnite are good people that i came to know through the forum on naws, but i've never met any of them.
i didn't mean to dump all of this out here to this degree, but i want you to understand why myself and coot aren't gung ho like we used to be. naws is suffering for the forum now that actually elevated them in the first place. irony.
Quote from: niel on October 08, 2016, 02:13:33 AM
so are you all done with the conversions yet or do you have more to go? as i said you put allot of work into doing this, but the reward is great.
call me dumb, but what did you mean here, "WB is also in his AO"? coot will not come on here to post as he said he doesn't have any midnite products and as such would feel out of place. i think he's a bit burned out and miffed from naws anyway as i can relate to a degree. not the folks here at midnite's fault in any way. btw, david l. of naws did apologize to me for how i was treated by both the naws forum in general and even by him, 6 months after i had quit. coot never got an apology and i was the only one to back him up for the wrongs done to him. this is water over the dam, but shows where he stands for posting on forums to help people ever again. he's up to his ears with other issues anyway as am i, but i still pop in here as the people at midnite are good people that i came to know through the forum on naws, but i've never met any of them.
i didn't mean to dump all of this out here to this degree, but i want you to understand why myself and coot aren't gung ho like we used to be. naws is suffering for the forum now that actually elevated them in the first place. irony.
West Branch is also in the interior of British Columbia WB = West Branch AO = Area of Operations .
Midnite folks are just fine & I spoke to one gent who said one man on his forum was so helpful , he was hired (& he's still here & has helped me also) .
Neil , Ya know Coots addy ? lets send him a MNBCM & then there is no reason not to say Hi.
He did spend alot of time helping , & i did warn of the Forum Software upgrde & total loss , As they had killed ours 6 months earlier ( Major Company who owns our forum , locked & you must have licence with company , PSW changed every 89 days, thru Novell banking ) so it's not a NAWS but they were dead in one week . Production effected & then them & others went after the Forum software company (Petro dollars , ya don't have a chance ) ..
OK back to the enlightened world !!!
Almost done all in the first buildings . I did take the new units apart & took a few pix to post a review as they asked.
I started typing , but then the BS of the java or something brought up a screen on there web page that wipe my type (30 mins +) hunt & peck typist , Sorry , not tying it again for you. Auto save yur jave & IM helping WHO ? 4 the Seller !!
Same as here post type first & then PIX cause its also a 1972 software .
Hence : « Last Edit: Today at 09:40:52 PM by CDN-VT »
right as wb is up at williams lake. i liked his avatar being a pic of the mountains up there. i don't know coot's address, but i believe he's south of wb. the meter would be a nice gesture, but i don't think that would get him on the forum or any forum for that matter. i wasn't really around for the software change they currently have at naws and was at odds with naws and some members before the major screwup with the vbulletin update. that was only the icing flowers on the cake, but when they banned coot for no reason i stopped with naws and that was the icing on the cake. many thought it was because we were in trouble due to olson, but that wasn't the case. btw, i'm not surprised that your warning to naws fell on deaf ears. even if you would've emailed naws directly it would've been to no avail.
not sure, but are you referring to ryan as they hired him and he was on naws going way back?
yes, java can get stinky sometimes.
btw cdn_vt, is he not calling himself westbranch and i see he is posting here on this forum?
Niel, yes it is me, same on both forums... not Coot, Coot lives about 60 miles South of here... I have his old address (e-mail) if you want to try it...
I was having a conversation with Robin one day & he told me that one gent on his forum was always helping etc & now he works with the Midnite crowd, & yes its the Halfcrazy You-Tube ,Administrator Mr Ryan .
Corrected West Bank for Branch Opps.
Coot lives in BBY Vancouver BC but has his get out of town place up there close to Westbranch of 60 miles south .
VT
sorry guys as i'm a bit late checking into the forum. i'm glad my memory is still somewhat intact and as i said we are in contact with each other. i do know he's not in the vancouver area any longer and has another place he calls home. he still has the place 60 miles south of you westbranch and he's complaining of the sparse sunshine for the past month or 2. he, as well as i, are both having health issues and that's as far as i wish to talk about that. time marches on.
Thanks Neil , Look after yourself , and also Coot .
Yes He was said the move was in the plans .
They want my medical done every two years now , then when they ask for it every year , in a few years , I need to stop paying to work .
Stay well you both !
VT
edit for SP
thanks and we try to keep up with our health issues even though it's like spitting into the wind at times.