Back in Business!

[keyturbocars]

I survived.    Our guests are gone and now my kids are off to bed too, so I have some peace and quiet.

OK, I checked the STATUS two screen and it showed 0.0A under the IN and 0.0A under the BAT.  This was while the turbine was spinning and IN voltage was running in the 80+V range. 

Next, I powered down the Classic and took off the cover.  I checked to make sure the top circuit board was seatly properly over the snap on white nylon retaining studs.  Everything looked solid.  Even so, I carefully checked around.  Everything look great an all pin connectors that I could see looked solidly connected.  After poking around, I closed up the Classic and checked it out again. Released the turbine brake and let it roll.  Same problem.  Nothing changed. 0.0A on Status screens one and two - even though the wind is blowing in the low teens and the IN voltage is bouncing against my AUX1 Clipper setting of 88V or so. 

I checked those 4 numbers and they were varying in this range:

(38-44)          (42-43)
(39-45)          (39-45)

Any other ideas?

I get a feeling my Classic is lovesick for Mario. 

Edward

[boB]

I checked those 4 numbers and they were varying in this range:

(38-44)          (42-43)
(39-45)          (39-45)

Any other ideas?

Edward

Yes, but those numbers look good to me.

Now try looking at those numbers when the wind is blowing and the Classic is not resting  (BULK MPPT)
If the current sense is working, the "-" numbers (I think those 2), should go down with increasing wind
and the "+" numbers should go up with increasing wind.

Also, do you have another way to see if the Classic is pulling or putting out current into the battery or drawing
current from the turbine when the Classic is running at its 62 Volt input ??  Current clamp meter maybe ??
battery monitor connected to a shunt ?

It doesn't seem like the Classic is blown though.  I will admit that this is pretty weird though.

boB

[keyturbocars]

I do have a clamp on ammeter.  I'll check those things you suggested and let you know what I find out.

Edward

[keyturbocars]

When I was checking those 4 numbers, the wind was a fairly steady 12-13mph and this is what I saw:

(38-44)          (41-42)
(40-45)          (39-46)

Seemed pretty much the same as when I was checking with the turbine braked.  

Something else sort of weird happened... while I was watching the IN voltage bouncing off my 88V AUX1 Clipper setting, I heard a click.  The status changed from BULK MPPT to Resting.  Weird.  Wind was still in the lower teens and the IN voltage was in the 80+V range.

I checked the DC cables coming into the Classic (from turbine rectifier output) and the DC cables going from the Classic to the battery bank.  Both ways showed 0A even when the Classic was in BULK MPPT mode.

Edward

[boB]

When I was checking those 4 numbers, the wind was a fairly steady 12-13mph and this is what I saw:

(38-44)          (41-42)
(40-45)          (39-46)

Seemed pretty much the same as when I was checking with the turbine braked.  

Something else sort of weird happened... while I was watching the IN voltage bouncing off my 88V AUX1 Clipper setting, I heard a click.  The status changed from BULK MPPT to Resting.  Weird.  Wind was still in the lower teens and the IN voltage was in the 80+V range.

If the cut in voltage set on the Classic is set to 62 Volts, how can the Classic input be sitting at 88 Volts (while in MPPT status) unless the power curve tells the Classic to run at 88 Volts without putting out, or without THINKING it's putting out any current ?  The input voltage doesn't rise unless the curve tells it to rise and that can't happen without output current being read by the Classic.  If the Classic doesn't think it has any output current in wind track mode, the input voltage to the Classic should be sitting at the cut in (0 Amp) voltage set point for 90 seconds, at which point it should go back to Resting until the input voltage rises again.  Isn't cut in set to  62 Volts for your turbine ?


If the Classic even THINKS that it is not putting out any power, it will turn off after 90 seconds and go back to resting.  It appears, from the numbers you are showing, as well as from the amp clamp meter readings, that the Classic is NOT putting anything into the batteries or taking anything in from the turbine.

I checked the DC cables coming into the Classic (from turbine rectifier output) and the DC cables going from the Classic to the battery bank.  Both ways showed 0A even when the Classic was in BULK MPPT mode.

Edward

Remember that just because the Classic SAYS "MPPT" doesn't mean it is putting out any current even if it's not broken.  It will do sit at 0 Amps for about 90 seconds before turning off and going back to resting.   One COULD have just enough wind that the input voltage can rise just above cut in voltage, turn on, (show MPPT), and go back down again and sit at that cut in voltage and 0 Amps... But the input voltage would only go to the cut in voltage  set point and sit there until the Classic went back to resting and you hear another "click" of the relay turning off.

Why was it going to 88 Volts and the Aux 1 clipping ??  Can we see your power curve ?  Maybe that will give us a clue ?

boB

[keyturbocars]

boB,

My cut in voltage is set at 62V.  The reason the Classic was sitting at 88V at times (or bouncing off that limit when the winds were high enough) was because I lowered my AUX1 PV V+ trigger voltage down to around 88V.  Earlier today, when the problem occured, I was seeing how the Classic was not loading down the turbine and the IN voltage would climb very quickly.  I didn't want to risk having my Classic blown by overvoltage.  I set my Clipper limit to 88V purely as a safety precaution to protect the Classic.

I've tried a couple different wind curves with no difference.  One of the curves I used for a long time before my Classic "popped".  In other words, the curve worked for months before, so I don't know why it would not work now.  Here's the curve I am using now and the one that I was using successfully in the past for an extended time period:

 

As you can see, it's pretty linear.  The first point is (0A,62V) and the last point is (88A,125V).  Up until recently, I had my AUX1 Clipper set to 118V to 120V.  Today, I changed my AUX1 Clipper setting to 86V to 88V just to be safe.

The thing that my mind keeps going back to is the fact that everything worked normally yesterday.  This morning, I came down to check on the Classic earlier in the morning.  Everything was working normally.  Then later this morning it was "beeping" at me and doing the rising IN voltage with no charging amps.  I didn't change anything.  If nothing changed, then why would it all of a sudden start doing this?  This is the mystery we are trying to solve.  Obviously, something changed.  That's why my brain just keeps coming back to some sort of hardware failure.  It's the only thing that makes sense, but I sure hope I am wrong or that I am forgetting or overlooking some vital key point that would explain all this.

It's 1AM and I'm about to call it a day.  I'll check in tomorrow morning and see if you had any visions in a dream that might give us a clue as to what going on with my Classic! 

Thanks for your help,

Edward

[boB]

Having a DUH!! moment as I DO remember this curve !!  DUh!!!

Anyhow, it would appear that the Classic is not loading down the turbine and usually is caused by the switcher portion
not switching...  One of the causes I have seen for this was the top control board not being plugged in all the way
or a pin that was bent and sticking out, usually on the top of the circuit board...  But your unit was working before
so the pin sticking out could not be the problem.  Looks like something else has come loose or something like that.

I will talk with Ryan and see if we should maybe ship you a new unit.  Maybe just the bottom part so you still keep
your curves.  You saved them in some of those "MEM"s, right ?? If so, you can pull them out of the MNGP and they
will go back to the Classic and then Bob's your uncle.

  (You'll notice I didn't say "boB's" your uncle.)

I'm sorry your having this trouble.  We evidently didn't fix your unit completely or something.

I sure wanna find out what we missed !!    (but it was working !!   Hmmmmm.......  puzzled look)

boB

[keyturbocars]

Hi boB,  Was working outside most of the day.  Just got back to my computer... 

I do have the different wind curves saved in MEM's and I've got handwritten notes here reminding me about the different curves. 

Would I just use my existing cover (with MNGP) of my existing 150 and screw it onto a new Classic (lower half)?

Along with my wind curves, would all my other settings also be saved by doing this (AUX settings, Limits, Charge settings, etc)?

I could just run through all my settings on my existing Classic and take notes for resetting a new Classic, but it would be cool to be able to retain all those setings and curves, if possible.  More important is to have a reliable unit, so I could easily go through all that and reprogram (including all the wind curves). 

Thanks again for the help!  Hope you didn't have any nightmares last night about me and my Classic! 

Edward

[Halfcrazy]

Edward
I have issued a new RMA and we will be advance shipping a new 150 You can use the existing MNGP and it should save some of its settings I am not sure of witch ones but it will save the wind graphs. Again I apologize for this it seems that maybe there was a week part that got hurt during the pop and it was ok enough to pass testing and it worked for a day? Seems like in the future when we have a blown up unit and we repair it we should run it hard for 4-5 hours maybe and these things may show up or they may not either

[boB]

Aux settings, kW-Hours and charge settings will be lost unfortunately. Some day we will be able
to clone settings.   Or a 3rd party application can do this (hint to all you 3rd party developers !)

But for now, you will have to re-do most of that.  The wind curves can stay in your MNGP though.

Wind curves CAN be transferred from one MNGP to another BTW.  Easiest way is to plug one
MNGP into the main MNGP port on the Classic and a second one into the middle (slave) port.
Then, as you recall memories on one MNGP it will magically appear in the second MNGP
and then you can go to the MEM screen and save them individually that way.

But some day you can actually read the settings from Classic and/or MNGP and clone them or
save them to disk for future use.  That's kind of cool !

boB

[keyturbocars]

OK.  Sounds good Ryan and boB.

I can remove my old Classic and install/wire up the new Classic on the wall.  Then I could use my HP power supply to power up the old Classic.  That way, I can go through menu by menu and duplicate my settings.  I might sift through my wind curves and dump most of them, and just reprogram a few curves into the new Classic that are worth keeping.  It won't be so bad to transfer the information manually - especially if I have the 2 of them side by side.  When that's all done, I'll ship the old one back for investigation in the Engineering Lav and the further advancement of science. 

Thanks again for all the help!

Edward

[keyturbocars]

I'm up and running again!    My new Classic arrived around 4PM today.  Good day to arrive too.  It has been windy here today with winds peaking at 37mph and averaging in the 20's.   It's simmering down a little now, but it's supposed to be windy into the night.  Great time for me to get up and running again and put my new Classic 150 to the test.   

boB, as I was programming in some of my wind curves, I noticed something in the wind editor that I didn't notice before.  I was manually entering in a couple of my wind curves.  I decided that only 2 of them were worth saving anyway.  Well, I had both Classics powered up and I was just copying over the (V,A) points into my new Classic.  When I went to MEM and SAVE then it seems to save that latest curve to all the MEM locations.  I tried again and it did the same thing.  I was using the wind editor as I always did before, so I'm not sure why it kept saving the latest curve to all the MEM locations (and would overwrite the other curve I saved in a different MEM location). 

Thanks boB and Ryan for getting me a new Classic 150!  Thanks also for giving me a cool Midnite battery state of charge meter! 

I appreciate the great service!

Edward

[keithwhare]

...for investigation in the Engineering Lav ...

It will be interesting to see what the Engineering Lab finds; I don't need to know about investigations in the Engineering Lav.

Keith

[boB]

boB, as I was programming in some of my wind curves, I noticed something in the wind editor that I didn't notice before.  I was manually entering in a couple of my wind curves.  I decided that only 2 of them were worth saving anyway.  Well, I had both Classics powered up and I was just copying over the (V,A) points into my new Classic.  When I went to MEM and SAVE then it seems to save that latest curve to all the MEM locations.  I tried again and it did the same thing.  I was using the wind editor as I always did before, so I'm not sure why it kept saving the latest curve to all the MEM locations (and would overwrite the other curve I saved in a different MEM location). 

Edward

Hmmmm....   Not sure about that MEM thing.  Will look now.  I didn't touch any of that code AFAIK

Yes, it will be interesting to see what went wrong with the old unit.  I suspect a bad connection though.

boB

[Halfcrazy]

Edward
We have tested this in the Lav and can not re create this. Can you try the old MNGP that you have and see if that does the same thing or did you load older MNGP code into that one?