toasted buss bar & wire

[Vic]

Hi dgd,

Thought that I saw it on the NAZW&Sun site about six months ago,  but not now.   There is a MN Shunt buss,   which might be made to work.

Should have mentioned that this large busbar might not fit in all e-panels -- have not tested it in any e-panels.

Vic

[dgd]

Thanks Vic.

I already bought one of those tinned copper plates for the shunt from NAWS. But its just a plate with holes ready for bolts and nuts to take copper ring connections. But I found it just a bit too fiddly to tighten down a nut as the bolt head needed a spanner as well. I didn't use it at the time but since considered threading the holes for s/s bolts.
The Big Busbar appears to have studs making connections fairly easy to do.

dgd

[zoneblue]

Its a pretty serious post on those breakers. I measure 20mm of thread, of which the nut and washer are about 7mm, that leaves about a half inch. I wouldnt go hanging heaps of lugs off it (for one thing the angles gets interesting), but your two controllers will fit just fine. 

[RossW]

Has anyone had any close calls like this in the past, or is this so rare it's not worth a second glance and I should just wash my pants.

Not quite the same situation, but a few years ago I stumbled on this:


Closer look and it was close enough to be a concern:


Once I cut it open, it was scary close:


It wasn't touching, but it mustn't have been missing by much! It was on 48V, would have flashed over for sure if it was just an air-gap. I think the melted nylon saved the day, but doubt it would have lasted much longer.

[Westbranch]

John, you're comment made me look...  wow, look at the strand #'s on these battery cable s

http://www.cobrawire.com/products/battery.php

found this link by searching for 4 ga SCR SAE J1127, which is my cable I used in rewiring my E-panel

http://standards.sae.org/j1127_201210/

go to the bottom and click on Energy Storage Systems 14 pages of references....

[BobWhite]

found this link by searching for 4 ga SCR SAE J1127, which is my cable I used in rewiring my E-panel

http://standards.sae.org/j1127_201210/

go to the bottom and click on Energy Storage Systems 14 pages of references....
[/quote]

WB, were did you find it and how much did it cost?
Walt

[Westbranch]

4 ga SCR SAE J1127,

I got it at my local NAPA dealer

[BobWhite]

thank you westbranch, I'll check them out. I've been using tined marine wire without problems but wish to make sure I don't have problems. so I wish to replace the runs to/from  the controllers, all short runs .

[Resthome]

thank you westbranch, I'll check them out. I've been using tined marine wire without problems but wish to make sure I don't have problems. so I wish to replace the runs to/from  the controllers, all short runs .

There is nothing wrong with using Marine wire. In fact it is slightly larger than the same wire THN wire. It is more flexable and the tined wires help reduce any chance of the cooper turning that ugly green.  Just make sure you tourque them with a tourque screwdriver to Midnite specs.

[Vic]

4 ga SCR SAE J1127,

I got it at my local NAPA dealer

SAE Gauging has smaller cross-sectional area than does AWG cable.  In the case of #4 Ga SAE,  generally it will be approximately 12% smaller,  IIRC.  That is,  AWG cables are larger for the same gauge number,  and therefore AWG cables are rated for a bit more current,  when using NEC Ampacity tables (am NOT saying that using the smaller SAE cable caused the entoastment of the busbars,  though).

In searching for the,   " SCR SAE J1127 " cable,  it does appear to be Fine,  or moderately Fine-Stranded cable.

As has been addressed here  previously,  believe that Fine Stranded cable is not appropriate for use screw-compression applications --  like on circuit breakers,  and screw type busbars.

In general 19-strand THHN/THWN ...  etc AWG should suffice for these applications,   IMO.  And 19 stranding covers a fairly broad range of THHN . . . cable gauges.

On one of the yellow labels in e-panels,  there is a reference to using fine stranded cable for battery connections.   Ryan has referred to this,  BUT,  he noted that this was referencing only heavy gauge cables that are the connections to the Main DC breaker,  and generally connections to the Inverters,  etc.  ALL of these fine-stranded connections must use the correct fine-strand lugs.

This is the way that I have read the discussion on this Forum.

FWIW,   Vic

[BobWhite]

4 ga SCR SAE J1127,

I got it at my local NAPA dealer

SAE Gauging has smaller cross-sectional area than does AWG cable.  In the case of #4 Ga SAE,  generally it will be approximately 12% smaller,  IIRC.  That is,  AWG cables are larger for the same gauge number,  and therefore AWG cables are rated for a bit more current,  when using NEC Ampacity tables (am NOT saying that using the smaller SAE cable caused the entoastment of the busbars,  though).

In searching for the,   " SCR SAE J1127 " cable,  it does appear to be Fine,  or moderately Fine-Stranded cable.

As has been addressed here  previously,  believe that Fine Stranded cable is not appropriate for use screw-compression applications --  like on circuit breakers,  and screw type busbars.

In general 19-strand THHN/THWN ...  etc AWG should suffice for these applications,   IMO.  And 19 stranding covers a fairly broad range of THHN . . . cable gauges.

On one of the yellow labels in e-panels,  there is a reference to using fine stranded cable for battery connections.   Ryan has referred to this,  BUT,  he noted that this was referencing only heavy gauge cables that are the connections to the Main DC breaker,  and generally connections to the Inverters,  etc.  ALL of these fine-stranded connections must use the correct fine-strand lugs.

This is the way that I have read the discussion on this Forum.

FWIW,   Vic

thank you westbranch, I'll check them out. I've been using tined marine wire without problems but wish to make sure I don't have problems. so I wish to replace the runs to/from  the controllers, all short runs .

There is nothing wrong with using Marine wire. In fact it is slightly larger than the same wire THN wire. It is more flexable and the tined wires help reduce any chance of the cooper turning that ugly green.  Just make sure you tourque them with a tourque screwdriver to Midnite specs.

you guys are the best!!

[Resthome]

Vic,

While I respect your opinion. It is the application that is important. On boats such as mine Marine wire is dictated by the USCG as are the use of ring lugs. The only place I have screw terminals is at the Midnite Classic and at the din rail breakers in the Midnite combiner. In the case of the combiner those breakers terminate the solar panel extension cables and are tourqued to MidNite specifications. At the Classic it is 6 ga Marine wire with the ends tined and again tourque to MidNite specs with a Snap-On tourque screwdriver. I don't over panel the Classic. The panels are a total of 1400 watts. Given all the variables probably get 70-80% of that.

I agree with you that screw type terminal on buss bars should be avoided for high current carrying cables.

IMHO there is nothing wrong with Marine type cables if used with the appropriate lugs and crimped correctly. My Ancor crimpper double crimps the Ancor marine lugs.

[jmarc]

Is there a breaker between the charge controller and buss?
Could you upload an image of entire wiring inside the epanel?

[Westbranch]

this might be the best you are going to find...  http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/epanelManual.pdf

also look at the videos.... how to ... http://www.midnitesolar.com/videoDisplay.php

hth

[Vic]

this might be the best you are going to find...  http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/epanelManual.pdf

also look at the videos.... how to ... http://www.midnitesolar.com/videoDisplay.php

hth

Am not quite sure what you are asking,  but here is a Pictorial Wiring Diagram,  fairly generic for e-panels:
http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/classic_simple_flow_diagram.pdf

FWIW,  Vic