Local App and Clock Sync Alert

[Resthome]

Okay here is the latest problem with the Local App V3.65 and the current production software V 1923. It’s pretty repeatable for me but not 100%. If you go the Data and Offline Line and let the LA sit on that screen and do nothing else with the computer the LA will eventually get an Alert that the Classic and your computer clock is more than 10 minutes difference. Continue to let the LA stay on the screen and do nothing with the computer and it will eventually disconnect. When you click on the disconnect warning the LA reconnects and the time sync Alert is gone.

Would like to know if anyone else can duplicate this with the latest Local App V3.65.

[Halfcrazy]

Yeah that sort of doesn't surprise me as the classic resources used when downloading the "Offline Data" are pretty large. I guess we never assumed one would continually re download that data.

I will talk to Andrew maybe he can ignore that request once it has been fulfilled instead of re downloading it continually.

yan

[mike90045]

yep.  I tried 3 times (I caught it on the 3rd try) to download the data, and waited for the export button to appear. twice the connection dropped/failed 3rd time I got to hit the xport button.   I can run local app all day, without a glitch.

[Resthome]

yep.  I tried 3 times (I caught it on the 3rd try) to download the data, and waited for the export button to appear. twice the connection dropped/failed 3rd time I got to hit the xport button.   I can run local app all day, without a glitch.

YeaH, I have had less disconnects lately. Especially if you are just monitoring the Status screen. If you tend to be using the app  and changing screens and mucking around in the Data screens, even with Live data or making configuration changes I will still get disconnects. Seems to me if the proper handshaking is going on you shouldn't see disconnects at all. Unless the Classic is so under powered that it just drops packets.

[Westbranch]

I have noted something that might help with diagnosing the source of the disconnects.

Recently I have been leaving the WiFi bridge on 24/7, and overnight shut the WiFi and Netbook OFF as I do through the day. 

Randomly I have had to go to the power room and power down the bridge AND switch, power it up and then I can get the LA to connect.

When this issue comes up, the LA has tried to connect , finds the  Classic and then gives the message ' cannot connect...??   

Both  Classics are properly identified but no connection.

HTH

[Halfcrazy]

Westbranch
So if cycling the bridge works it sounds like that is what is getting confused not necessarily the Classics. Andrew would be better to answer than I but thats my guess.

[Westbranch]

Thansk Ryan,  I will add a few more bit below to see if it can clarify... then on to Andrew...?

I have noted something that might help with diagnosing the source of the disconnects.

Recently I have been leaving the WiFi bridge on 24/7, and overnight shut the WiFi and Netbook OFF as I do through the day.   Still getting those random daytime lost connection with LA on and with real time graphing shown.  sometimes they are minutes apart others are days apart...


Randomly I have had to go to the power room and power down the bridge AND switch, power it up and then I can get the LA to connect.


this is not always needed asI usually just click the connect button in the disconnect message and it will reconnect.  Thought!  During the day the time lapse is say within a few minutes to 1/2 hr ..  But I did leave the Netbook on overnight and next morning I was able to click and reconnect.  The repowering of bridge/switch was only twice so far...


When this issue comes up, the LA has tried to connect ,  the  Classic and then gives the message ' cannot connect' ...?? 

Both  Classics are properly identified but no connection.
HTH


The LA  does find 2 classics by their coded name and then displays their proper name

[Resthome]

Westbranch

Pretty much the same thing I see with my disconnects occurring in the Data windows Live or Offline. Not as much if left on Status Panel but still will see disconnects here also. I haven't had a disconnects that required resetting my Wireless Router in a very long time. But lots of the ones that it will reconnect by itself. Occasionally will have to close the Local App and reset it to get the connection back.

Midnite folks:

I do not for a minute think it is the external network hardware that is at fault or length of cables. I believe the Ethernet cable spec for twisted pair cables is close to 300 ft.  It is either the Classic or the Local App, which one is very hard to determine without a network sniffer and knowledge of the network stacks the LA and the Classic are using. It's been pretty much proven that it cannot handle the rate of data the Classic is streaming without there being some type of network handshaking error which causes the Ethernet connection to not respond and thus show the disconnect message and then have to try to reconnect. I'll admit the retries are mostly successful. Other than my repeatable disconnect with staying on the Offline data I have not found a repeatable cause. But that is not to say they do not occur with the Classic and the LA.  If Ryan is correct that once the Export button is activated that the LA still is receiving data using the Modbus FTP transfer then that should be corrected as there is no need for that as you are already have the complete set of data for export and to continue to stream that batch of data would not make any sense.  The clock out of sync message is also strange as I thought that alert only occurred if the PC and the Classic clock were off by more than 10 minutes. And since the MNGP and the Classic both have clocks the question is which one is tripping that software alert and is it real. And while the LA plots the Live data at a slower rate, I think it is every 5 minutes for the data plots the export data shows data points of every 2 seconds. And even with disconnect I don’t see a loss of time stamp data in that I do not see gaps in the time stamps so maybe there is some kind of buffering going on and the disconnects are not really causing loss of data. I believe Andrew told me the data for export was stored on the PC in some files.

And another data point to ponder the folks exporting their own data have reported disconnects unless they poll for data at a slower rate. These folks are not using the local app so that points to the Classic IMHO.

The Midnite folks have been very transparent in working with users and I still feel the Classic is the best hardware in the RE field. With their resources it should not be too hard to temporally enlist a network expert in real time data with a Network Sniffer to analyze these disconnects with some modified software to time stamp the data at time of disconnect and match it to sniffer data to analysis the packets and recommend a solution.

[Westbranch]

And while the LA plots the Live data at a slower rate, I think it is every 5 minutes for the data plots the export data shows data points of every 2 seconds. And even with disconnect I don’t see a loss of time stamp data in that I do not see gaps in the time stamps so maybe there is some kind of buffering going on and the disconnects are not really causing loss of data.

RH, I have sat and watched a BLIP on the screen of my PC and wondered what the cause, next week I will time the interval,....BUT it is not 2 seconds, IIRC it runs at more than 30 up to 60 seconds (or more?) ...  To me it appeared a bit more random...  observation will tell.


As to the "sniffer', what does that entail?
Could it be run simultaneously with the LA? 
I would give it a try if needed...

[Resthome]

Westbranch

A sniffer is an expensive piece of hardware for analyzing network traffic. It is really a laptop with very special software that reads every packet going across the network cable. It shows who sent it and how it was received. There is a pure software version that is similar called "Wireshark"  that can be installed on any Win PC. And both run and watch the network traffic. There are ways to filter the data to look at specific traffic since it sees everything on the network.   

[Westbranch]

thanks John, I remember someone mentioning that Wireshark program, maybe here or on NAWS..
My poor little Netbook is suffering from a lack of RAM so it might not take to more load if it needs to be web connected at the same time. SWMBO even suggested today that maybe it's TIME to get a newer one.... have to think on it...

[Halfcrazy]

So my next question is can you open task manager and see what kind of load is on the PC? I know Air uses a fair bit of resources so maybe there is a memory leak in the app or maybe the PC is out of memory?

I have 8 classics being poled by a 3rd party program here that have been active for about 8 months and no losses. (The program sends me an SMS if it looses more than 3 attempts to poll the a classic)

I will pass all this info on to the boss and let him decide what to do. Are both of you running the newest beta firmware?

[Resthome]

I’m running a 4 core, 8 logical processor CPU @ 5% utilization. I have 12G of memory an it is using 30%.  So I don’t think I have a resource problem.

I am running the latest production firmware. As far as I know there is no Beta firmware. It you are talking about Andrew’s Alpha code yes I tried it and had the same drop outs with the local app. The fact that it screwed up the data logging on the Classic itself made me go back to the latest production code. So maybe if this code ever gets released with out the data logging bug we can all try it. Maybe the Local App needs to wait for 3 failed attempts before showing the disconnect message as it does reconnect on retries most of the time.

Ryan let's compare Apples and Apples.  How about you running the latest Local App and tell us if you see any drop outs. Especially in the Data modes like Offline Data. And if it runs for 8 months without a disconnect I would be a happy camper.

I’m not sure how your app poles the CLASSIC. Is it just pinging it? If this is the app that requires another piece of hardware, I will have to go back and read your thread on it.

[Westbranch]

Hi Ryan, I will be back on site on Sunday to check on the memory (RAM) usage and see if there is any unknown use of the RAM (1Gb) by 'leakage' from Air or LA...  when the drop outs haev occured I have only had the LA running and

The Netbook is an ASUS 101CH  with  4 processor, Intel Atom CPU N2600 @ 1.60 Ghz

running latest production version of LApp and 18** version firmware for Classic and MNGP