Got Comm, Unused Address, beeps and more

[Exclavius]

Good day to the forum.

New to the site, only had the midnite for half of a year, and this is my first "problem" that simply reading the forums wasn't able to help.

My classic is giving me issues, and i'm not sure what to do, or what's causing it.

I get long beeps, then it usually stops charging, displays "got comm" or "unused address"
If it's got comm then left/right together takes me to the unused address, which will say 12 or 255.
i can change it, but the normal screen appears when it's set to 10, but "got comm" is all it says... usually it has the voltage right, or at least close, even when it says got comm...
I'm trying to remember, but I believe if the thing goes to got comm immediately after boot up, then it has 0 volts....

Left alone, it will sometimes go back to a resting state, or even back to charging (usually a moment of resting, then charging) only to go back to got comm or unused address again.

ONCE when i tried a hard boot, it froze on the sending data ... I rebooted it again, and it did it again.
Forget how i got around that, but once it booted again, it went back  to this cycle.

One other time i was standing at the machine and for a BRIEF moment it said OCP (I assume over current protection)
however it was bringing in about 120 watts on a 1800 watt system at the time, so not quite sure what that was about... I don' think it said OCP for more than a second before it went to got comm again... and I have not seen it since, but that doesn't mean it hasn't said it.

One other event... when the unused address is on the screen.
sometimes if i change the display, it make random characters appear all over the screen and freezes the who thing, needs to power up and down.
Also, sometimes (especially if i hold right and left arrow to send data, which doesn't work) the whole screen or the upper left portion of it dims... not the backlight, but the digits/letters.

Not sure what else I can say other than a rundown of my system.
But please ask for any additional info that you might require.

8 x 6v trojan L16s (48v)
Midnite Classic 200
Magnasine ms 4448 pae
6 x 36v 300 watt panels (two parallel strings of 3)

Thanks to anyone who can offer help.

[FNG]

This sounds like an issue with the display communicating with the classic itself,

Questions:

1- Are you using the standard phone cable between the display and the classic that came with the classic?
2- Can you get a sense if it is still charging when it is having these issues?

I would suggest calling into out support dept for help

[Exclavius]

I have off an on thought it was just comm.
But, it appears to stop charging completely... ie with only 100 watts it's hard to say if the voltage is going up and down the 0.1 to 0.2 volts i think i'm seeing.

I'm sitting here listening to it now...

It sits in bulk... then starts to given a continuous beep.
After a time... 1 second to 20 seconds it either stops beeping (rare) or (common) goes to got comm
the machine goes through the same "click" it does when it starts/stops charging sometime after that, and starts charging for a while (20 to 30 seconds) and repeats.

It's t he cord that came with the classic that connects them.  the cord has a bang or two on it, because of the bad design inside the case, it's almost impossible to close the case without pinching this wire.  but the bang or two don't appear to go right thru the casing.

[Exclavius]

Oh, and as for support.
I'm afraid the last time i asked the company a specific question (by email), i got a 200 page manual emailed to me, rather than any attempt at an answer, so I'm not sure what I would expect from them.
Is it worth my time?

Something I just noticed now... i had been writing it off as coincidence but... it seems quite often the screech or continuous beeper goes off often when i just touch the case.
if it's still in bulk, it just stops beeping and charges.
if it's in got comm, a moment later it starts charging again.

could there be a ground issue or was this board cold soldered?

Edit: Okay, been watching it more and seeing more messages.

I'm getting about 120-160 watts today <2 amps at ~100 volts.
the OCP message is now commonly appearing.
it tends to say bulk, then the info stays, but the bulk disappears, blank that area for a second or two, then OCP appears VERY briefly, <1 second, then got comm.
Some steps change/skip each time thru the cycle.

Another edit:
Now, i've noticed it has an Voc of 115, but as i watch the LCD panel, i watch as the voltaqe start at that number, and slowly drop to about 55 or so, then restart at 110v, but sometimes, when it gets down to the 60's it does this chirping and OCP and got comm, then resting then charging routine.
each cycle is lasting less than a minute.
a light tap on the front of the panel ALMOST ALWAYS stops the chirp.

[boB]

Do you know about how old the software is ?

Do you notice if the 3 LEDs inside the classic behind the vertical air slots are blinking at all ?

You might try plugging the MNGP into the middle phone jack instead of the top jack.  Two of the 3 LEDs
on the MNGP itself (the bottom 2) will stop working when plugged into the middle jack but that is all.
Might be worth a try.

The beeping kind of has me worried.  Unless it's newer software (but not the latest)....

Beeping can also be caused by ground fault or arc fault but I have a feeling that isn't it.

Showing Got Comm and zero volts etc. indicates to me that it just isn't communicating with the Classic, or
at least in your case, intermittently.   I would have thought that maybe the address was set wrong but
I don't think that would cause it to beep annoyingly ?

If you turn off the Classic by the battery circuit breaker, let it sit for a minute and turn it back on
again, do you notice those 3 internal LEDs strobe back and forth and the fans turn on for a moment ?


Sorry you are having so much trouble !

boB

PS  I would give our support a try again.  Let me (us?) know please if that is all you receive is a manual and no dialog with a person or any indication on which way to go with your problem

[Exclavius]

Red light behind the panel is blinking, while it is in "got comm"
no lights when it appears to be charging correctly.

Not sure the age of the software, bought the classic 6 or 7 months ago, and haven't changed or updated firmware.

on a power up, all three LEDs are blinking briefly.

after this started, i enabled arc fault protection, in case, but hasn't helped.

i'm not getting any power now, so it's really hard to do any further tests.



Regarding the support, i had sent a configuration, asking if with specific cold temps if a PV array was safe.  All i got was an email saying "Here this 200 page or so DIY manual is what you need"... nothing more/nothing less.   Check out the ticket: CLA11646

It was a "I should've gone with Outback" Moment.  I still hold it against your company too.
So, if you want to recover that, let's find the solution here.

[FNG]

So if it changes when you touch or bang the case I wonder if the control board is not seated well. The top circuit board plugs onto the control board and I have seen these come partially off for various reasons and lots of weird things can happen.

I would take the cover off and check that the control board is seated well, here is a video showing the removal and replacement of it for reference.

http://www.midnitesolar.com/video/videoPlay.php?video_ID=26&videoCat_ID=3

And as for help feel free to email me anytime ryan@midnitesolar.com you will not get a manual in return unless you ask me for one

[FNG]

Red light behind the panel is blinking, while it is in "got comm"
no lights when it appears to be charging correctly.

Not sure the age of the software, bought the classic 6 or 7 months ago, and haven't changed or updated firmware.

on a power up, all three LEDs are blinking briefly.

after this started, i enabled arc fault protection, in case, but hasn't helped.

i'm not getting any power now, so it's really hard to do any further tests.



Regarding the support, i had sent a configuration, asking if with specific cold temps if a PV array was safe.  All i got was an email saying "Here this 200 page or so DIY manual is what you need"... nothing more/nothing less.   Check out the ticket: CLA11646

It was a "I should've gone with Outback" Moment.  I still hold it against your company too.
So, if you want to recover that, let's find the solution here.

I looked into that ticket and I do agree the answer was to short and not what you asked. I apologize for that. The tech support employee should have pointed you to the string sizing tool and mentioned that string design would be too high in voltage for a Classic 200. I wasn't aware we had a DIY manual I will have to look into that

[Vic]

He Exc..,

That "beep" may well be a continuous tone,   not too loud,   that comes from the inductors inside the Classic.   This occurs when the PV input  voltage is taken down to just a few volts above the battery voltage.

Could you please read and respond to these questions from FNG (?):

   "Questions:

1- Are you using the standard phone cable between the display and the classic that came with the classic?
2- Can you get a sense if it is still charging when it is having these issues?".

Also,   you could try to check the Firmware version numbers for your Classic,    by pressing the left small white Status button about five or six times when the MNGP was on the first status page,   there should be numbers for the Classic,   MNGP,   and Network comm Firmware.   Of course  if the MNGP is not working well,  this will not work.

BTW,   FNG and boB have been giving you support on this Forum.   You will not find this kind of immediate support from any other Solar equipment manufacturer.   boB is a co-founder of Midnite (and in Engineering),   and FNG is on the front-line in Support.

Answers to questions will help you get better replies,   Thanks,   Vic

[Exclavius]

Thanks bobB & FNG, this is more what i  had read the service was like with midnite.  Maybe Todd didn't get the memo?  Either way that was another issue, and in the past.

I felt at the side of the PC boards briefly and it feels like there is a brown floppy barrier between the boards but I'm going to do some more looking at those boards and watch that video you linked me.

Will take me a while, i guess to get results regarding the seating of the board, but don't be afraid to make other comments in the meanwhile.

The only other thing i can think to mention is that the occurrence rate doesn't seam to vary with power available (except that it doesn't do it when there is no power avail.)

Thanks again

PS don't worry, I never went with that string, instead i used the one listed in my OP

[FNG]

Feel free to email or call me when you are in front of the Classic. My number is 360-403-7207 XT151 I am happy to walk through checking that connection with you, I am now certain it is not the blue cable as that wouldn't stop it from charging and you said you here the relay click when this happens.

[Exclavius]

Hi Vic

Thanks for your reply
Yes, using that cable that came with it.  (but I'm not 100% sure it hasn't gotten damaged by being pinched by the design of the classic itself)
No, i'm about 99% sure it is NOT charging when acting up.
  (99% because with so little input power atm, i can't see much change in voltage, but there is 0.1-.02v change throughout this cycle)

Firmware numbers are:
2186 mngp
2126 classic

And i apologize vic, I thought I had answered those questions in one of my first follow ups, sorry.

And you are correct about FNG and boB... this is the kind of support I had read about, and had encouraged me to buy Midnite, that first interaction left me just left me feeling.... well let's not go there.

Thanks again

[Vic]

Hi Exclavius,

Thanks for that info.   FW 2126 is the latest (except the later version that supports the speaking Classic).

Looks like you are getting the support that you expected ...

Thanks,     good luck,      Vic

[boB]

2186 mngp
2126 classic

Actually there IS one newer software update (2193) than these and although it does support speech as well, one main
reason it exists is to help take care of an issue with some Classic processors that can stop working when
it gets hot.  It adds an extra wait-state to the Flash memory read cycle.  IF this happens to be your Classic's
issue, then this should fix it.   But then again, maybe you would rather not go through the hassle of upgrading
the firmware in your Classic and just have us do it with an RMA. It actually is pretty painless these days but
works best with Windows OS.

When this issue does happen, usually the Classic will stop responding and only a unpower/repower will make
the Classic come back.

http://www.midnitesolar.com/firmwareReport.php?firmware_ID=19&firmwareProduct_ID=1&act=edit

The revision note for this on that page even says...

Revision Includes:
- Added Voice features
- Adjusted settings to help combat high temperature failures including GOT COM errors

I think the "added voice features" was more of a fix for some beeping annoyances when pressing
the ENTER button.  Also, anything that says voice features additions or fixes are pretty much going
to be confined to the MNGP at this point.  Beeping is usually from the MNGP too but some information
that is NOT passed from the Classic to the MNGP might be able to make it beep.

Also, 2193 refers to the Classic firmware itself and included is another revision number for the MNGP.
If your issue has to do with this processor heat thing, then updating the Classic only with 2193 would
fix your Got Comm issue.

Thanks,
boB

[Exclavius]

Thanks again boB

I did a quick check through of the process and I have no problem running through that procedure.
I tried it once, but I gotta luck out and have it boot up without being in "got comm" as the computer doesn't recognize it when it's displaying this.

It had been operating most of the last few hours but since the reboot during prep for update haven't had it operating again.

Anyways, i'll try to get it to recognize and post my results when ready.

Ryan gave me some ideas that I ran through today too, none of which helped, but I'm gonna check for broken solder when i have a quiet time alone.
I'll keep plugging away to get this to work the most I can till the replacement gets here.

Again, thanks
Luke