Closed loop with Rosie/ Barcelona /hawksbay

[mahendra]

Is this Type A or Type B .

As this would help in determining the correct ground pin for batteries .

Got EG 4 Pins here:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/using-eg4-communications-hub-with-victron.75963/post-967045

I don't think Type A or B would be applicable here, since you are not using all 8 wires.  You are building a cable with 2 or 3 wires (if you do the ground), so the only important issue is to get those on the correct pins.  That's what generated my earlier question as to orientation of the plug (tab up or down) so I could get the 4 & 5 pin, High & Low, to the correct place on the battery and inverter.

So ... I made a patch cable using Cat6 shielded cable w/metal ends, so it MAY be grounded thru the cable shielding.  I say MAY, because I don't know if the RG45 connector on the Rosie motherboard and the battery RG45 are each connected to ground.  They each have a PIN that is grounded, but the connector itself? FNG said the ground isn't needed in the cable, so shouldn't make a difference anyway.  The cable ends have the 4/5 pins swapped on each end per the diagrams that Classic Crazy posted.  I did plug it in to Rosie before I terminated the battery end and verified which wire had the higher voltage, then made that the battery pin 4 High, which actually agreed w/the diagrams!   I just need to upload the latest MNGP2 & Rosie software and we'll see what happens :|

Dave

Thanks Dave ,so rather than guessing .I think I will use your method. Metal rj45 head for grounding through the sheilding

[ClassicCrazy]

I made up a  pin 4 and 5 cable today.
I had updated the firmware last night . I changed all my batteries to pylon protocol.
I am not sure if just the first battery needs to be pylon because it is the lead , but I did them all .
Plugged in my new cable to Can port on hawkes bay , and can port on battery. No smoke or anything.
But there does not seem to be any confirmation that it is connected or working from battery info ?
I guess since Ryan said the temperature would be imported from batteries as well, now I think I should have just warmed up the midnite temp sensor and then I could have known if it was working if the temp didn't change on mngp2 display . Too late to try that now since I have everything tucked away for the day and don't have the Can plug in now.

Larry

[aaapilot]

I made up a  pin 4 and 5 cable today.
I had updated the firmware last night . I changed all my batteries to pylon protocol.
I am not sure if just the first battery needs to be pylon because it is the lead , but I did them all .
Plugged in my new cable to Can port on hawkes bay , and can port on battery. No smoke or anything.
But there does not seem to be any confirmation that it is connected or working from battery info ?
I guess since Ryan said the temperature would be imported from batteries as well, now I think I should have just warmed up the midnite temp sensor and then I could have known if it was working if the temp didn't change on mngp2 display . Too late to try that now since I have everything tucked away for the day and don't have the Can plug in now.

Larry

Do you determine if it worked, Larry?

I tried mine this morning.  Waited until the SOC was 4% different between the battery app and the MNGP2, so maybe if there was communication, id see it.  Nothing changed.  I left it connected for a couple hours to give it time to 'talk'.  Well, my HB had shut down?!  Just went dead, no CB blown, etc.  The HB has worked flawlessly for a year. Shut down the battery breaker, turned off the PV breakers, counted to 10, battery breaker back on and the HB came to life!  PV back on and all normal.  Disconnected the new cable and decided to wait a week for the new firmware updates to the MNGP2 & Rosie to 'season', so I know they are good, then will revisit this.  I'll make sure the cable has good continuity in the mean time.  Since it's just a 'listening' issue w/the cable, i cant imagine how that would cause the HB to shut down.  Will check the error codes shortly.

Dave

[ClassicCrazy]

That is weird Dave - wonder what made your hawkes bay go blank ?
I didn't get time to try out the battery cable again today . Weather was beautiful out here for December so I was doing some outdoors projects.
What kind of batteries are you using  ?
Larry

[ClassicCrazy]

Is this Type A or Type B .

As this would help in determining the correct ground pin for batteries .

Got EG 4 Pins here:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/using-eg4-communications-hub-with-victron.75963/post-967045

The cable I made the other day I used on an EG4 inverter and it seems to see it just fine. I only used pin 4 and 5 for now which seems to be the standard for most Canbus ports on batteries. At least for most of the batteries I have seen recently.
Larry

[aaapilot]

That is weird Dave - wonder what made your hawkes bay go blank ?
I didn't get time to try out the battery cable again today . Weather was beautiful out here for December so I was doing some outdoors projects.
What kind of batteries are you using  ?
Larry

I have Pytes V5 batteries and they use pylon code.  4 high/5 low standard pin assignment for CanBUS.  I ordered a usb - CanBUS cable from Solar Assistant, crimped on the rj45, and plugged it in to the RasPi.  It read out data just fine to the SA, so I know the Pin 4/5 works for the Pytes.

I think the HB shutting down had to be something from the cable.  I didn't reset everything to factory settings as I normally do when I update firmware, so I'll do that tomorrow just for grins. I was in a hurry to try the newly made cable For the record, the HB CanBUS cables to MNGP2, then to Rosie. I removed the CanBUS termination from the Rosie & used that port to the battery.  Shouldn't make any difference where you attach to the CanBUS and this is the shortest run to the batteries.
Dave

[mahendra]

I completed some additional set up and inserted a missing arc fault piece in HB yesterday .
Firmware updated waiting on the eg4 hub to test.
I will post in this thread and the other for Rosie in Guyana on the developments.

Thanks for the updates guys I am feeling more confident.

[Wizbandit]

I think the HB shutting down had to be something from the cable.  I didn't reset everything to factory settings as I normally do when I update firmware, so I'll do that tomorrow just for grins. I was in a hurry to try the newly made cable For the record, the HB CanBUS cables to MNGP2, then to Rosie. I removed the CanBUS termination from the Rosie & used that port to the battery.  Shouldn't make any difference where you attach to the CanBUS and this is the shortest run to the batteries.
Dave

I suspect a "glitch" in the Closed-Loop code now in the MNGP2 FirmWare.  The code must have "Stop Charge on BMS command" in it.  I updated and my Barcelona dropped to RESTING with zero watts out.  The MNGP2 also has code now to detect if ANY chargers on the CANBUS do not have the same BATTERY CONFIG settings.  If it detects either a real issue or a glitch kicks in the MNGP2 will throw a BATTERY CONFIG FAULT and make you setup the Battery Settings again.  Usually I can do MODE ON/OFF and get the unit charging again but not so with the Closed-Loop glitch.  I had to power-cycle.  I'm told now by management the MPPT devices need a power-cycle after any FirmWare update.  I have reported this issue to engineering so we shall see what they find...

[aaapilot]

I think the HB shutting down had to be something from the cable.  I didn't reset everything to factory settings as I normally do when I update firmware, so I'll do that tomorrow just for grins. I was in a hurry to try the newly made cable For the record, the HB CanBUS cables to MNGP2, then to Rosie. I removed the CanBUS termination from the Rosie & used that port to the battery.  Shouldn't make any difference where you attach to the CanBUS and this is the shortest run to the batteries.
Dave

I suspect a "glitch" in the Closed-Loop code now in the MNGP2 FirmWare.  The code must have "Stop Charge on BMS command" in it.  I updated and my Barcelona dropped to RESTING with zero watts out.  The MNGP2 also has code now to detect if ANY chargers on the CANBUS do not have the same BATTERY CONFIG settings.  If it detects either a real issue or a glitch kicks in the MNGP2 will throw a BATTERY CONFIG FAULT and make you setup the Battery Settings again.  Usually I can do MODE ON/OFF and get the unit charging again but not so with the Closed-Loop glitch.  I had to power-cycle.  I'm told now by management the MPPT devices need a power-cycle after any FirmWare update.  I have reported this issue to engineering so we shall see what they find...

Thanks Wizbandit for your input!  You saved us all a lot of trial and error for not. I was going to cut off one end of my cable and start again.  I'll just set this aside until another firmware update or confirmation from the group that it's working.

Dave

[FNG]

I made up a  pin 4 and 5 cable today.
I had updated the firmware last night . I changed all my batteries to pylon protocol.
I am not sure if just the first battery needs to be pylon because it is the lead , but I did them all .
Plugged in my new cable to Can port on hawkes bay , and can port on battery. No smoke or anything.
But there does not seem to be any confirmation that it is connected or working from battery info ?
I guess since Ryan said the temperature would be imported from batteries as well, now I think I should have just warmed up the midnite temp sensor and then I could have known if it was working if the temp didn't change on mngp2 display . Too late to try that now since I have everything tucked away for the day and don't have the Can plug in now.

Larry

Do you determine if it worked, Larry?

I tried mine this morning.  Waited until the SOC was 4% different between the battery app and the MNGP2, so maybe if there was communication, id see it.  Nothing changed.  I left it connected for a couple hours to give it time to 'talk'.  Well, my HB had shut down?!  Just went dead, no CB blown, etc.  The HB has worked flawlessly for a year. Shut down the battery breaker, turned off the PV breakers, counted to 10, battery breaker back on and the HB came to life!  PV back on and all normal.  Disconnected the new cable and decided to wait a week for the new firmware updates to the MNGP2 & Rosie to 'season', so I know they are good, then will revisit this.  I'll make sure the cable has good continuity in the mean time.  Since it's just a 'listening' issue w/the cable, i cant imagine how that would cause the HB to shut down.  Will check the error codes shortly.

Dave

I doubt the Hbay had shut down it sounds more like the canbus crashed. It sounds like:
1- Protocol was not compatible
2- Pin Out is incorrect
3- Other wires are run, Remember Midnite Can uses a couple pins for power and ground etc

[ClassicCrazy]

Ryan , is there any indicator on the MNGP2 that the Canbus is communicating with the battery ?  I had the idea of heating up the battery temp sensor from the Hawkes Bay , and if temperature  didn't increase on MNGP2  then that would be an indication that temp is coming from the bms , right ?

Larry

[aaapilot]

I doubt the Hbay had shut down it sounds more like the canbus crashed. It sounds like:
1- Protocol was not compatible
2- Pin Out is incorrect
3- Other wires are run, Remember Midnite Can uses a couple pins for power and ground etc

FNG, is the ground Pin required for Rosie to battery cables?  I was under the impression the ground pin wasn't needed in this instance.  Also, can you verify the Pin numbering from left to right please, with the push lock facing DOWN and the cable facing away from you, so all pins/wire colors are visible when making the cable.

My Pin Out may very well be wrong, so answering these 2 issues will correct any errors.  In my case, I can't say if the HB actually shut down, but from an observational standpoint, the PV output line on the display was totally blank, not just 0 output, verified by no power going into the batteries & verified by the separate battery dongle app. Pressing the MPPT button, the display said no MPPT was installed in the system.  Rosie was still operating and all other parameters were reported on the MNGP2, so I was thinking the Canbus was operational, but I don't know what a Canbus crash would look like.  Thanks so much for your insight!

Dave

[Brucey]

Looks like solar Assistant support for Rosie is live. So is this the cable I should order to connect to a Rosie and Hawkes Bay? No midnite batteries currently. Thanks.

https://solar-assistant.io/shop/products/can_usb_self_crimp

[FNG]

Ryan , is there any indicator on the MNGP2 that the Canbus is communicating with the battery ?  I had the idea of heating up the battery temp sensor from the Hawkes Bay , and if temperature  didn't increase on MNGP2  then that would be an indication that temp is coming from the bms , right ?

Larry

Yes on the main status page scroll 2 clicks I believe it is and BMS page should show up, It may not show if it doesnt see a BMS

[ClassicCrazy]

Ryan , is there any indicator on the MNGP2 that the Canbus is communicating with the battery ?  I had the idea of heating up the battery temp sensor from the Hawkes Bay , and if temperature  didn't increase on MNGP2  then that would be an indication that temp is coming from the bms , right ?

Larry

Yes on the main status page scroll 2 clicks I believe it is and BMS page should show up, It may not show if it doesnt see a BMS

I plugged the cable in and see that page now. So I guess it is working .
All the fields are filled in on the MNGP2 BMS Battery Status screen.
Though I don't know what the Time signifies ?
 Also two temps are displayed so not sure if one is from bms and one for Hawkes Bay  temp sensor ? ( I figured this out - it is showing the Minimum and Maximum temps from I guess all five of my batteries ). 
Anyway all good .
Now I have to back and find you post to see how this effects the charging . That is for if the sun comes out again in December !
Found your other post
" When you close loop a Rosie/Hbay/Bclna with a battery the Battery voltage, Battery temperature, Battery current, Battery SOC etc are all supplied by the battery. Essentially the MNGP2 listens for the SOC for example and if it recieves it from a battery it is a higher priority and thus over writes the WBjr"

Larry