Local App - SNAFU :-|

[SolarMusher]

No problem David,
In fact, I'd be very happy to use a "clean data log" from the loc app in order to check/note my monthly production, when it will really work... 
Data log in my Classic has always been a bit funky, firmware after firmware...
From my musher experience  , this problem is first in the Classic FW because every times I change/modify a setting, no matter which one, I've an index or two with 0 value.
My Classic is very conservative, it doesn't like changing.
Hard to help Yann without informations on his system.

Yann,

"If you cannot measure it, you cannot improve it."

Absolutely right, but you just need to look at your battery monitor or if you don't have one, you can also check what you need directly in your MNGP/Classic. you won't have more infos thru your loc app.
But you'd better check your batteries first as Wsetbranch suggested.
Send me a PM in french if that help, I'll do my best.
Erik

[Lya72]

Hi All,

Sorry for the delay, I was on the road.

So Here is the material, with pictures, in case :

- 4 SILLIA panels 240W in 2 strings of 2, ie 960Watts and 60.8 Volts.
- 1 MIDNITE SOLAR Classic 200
- 4 MIDAC Batteries 6V 240Ah, ie 24V bank (wet batteries)

[Lya72]

and .. the measures of the day :

- Production : a very good day : 600 Watts   total of the day  :-(     

- Load : 0.62A = 15.5 Watts * 24 hours = 372 watts
In January, on 31 days, I have 17 days with a day production below 350 Watts, with a 960W total panels !!
These loads are just the Classic, my Inverter in sleep mode and my WebRelayBoard.
Actually, unable to power my NAS with the solar : the load jumps to 60 watts * 24 hours = 1 440 watts needed each day.

- Acid Density (you say SG) : 1.18 at 08:00PM today

- Classic Log

- my Battery voltage log
Note the Voltage jump at 9:00 AM

[Lya72]

Yes, here, the sun shines sometimes in February, and the Classic produces with good irradiation !!


- A MNGP capture, with more than 21.2 Amps in Absorb mode

- A LocalApp capture with a record of 1 054 watts with 960W panels

[Westbranch]

Yann, I am not familiar with that brand of battery but I do know that for other brands your SG's should be above 1.225.
Also your average amps input is a bit low and should be higher.
You state you have an constant load of ~=375 W daily, and you had 17 days < 350W, in those 17 days you generated a negative state (from full) in you bank of ~ 425 Watts.  At 350W per day, and no input, your bank will last you ~ 7.5 days till you reach DoD of 50%, before you know it your bank is dead.

Solution:
You need more panels to match your loads.
you need to do a full charge for several days , at least BULK ( > 80% SoC) with mains or a generator, Use the Classic to Absorb and into Float,  and then do an EQ as recommended by your Batt. Manufacturer.

hth

[SolarMusher]

Allo Yann,

Hi All,

Sorry for the delay, I was on the road.

So Here is the material, with pictures, in case :

- 4 SILLIA panels 240W in 2 strings of 2, ie 960Watts and 60.8 Volts.
- 1 MIDNITE SOLAR Classic 200
- 4 MIDAC Batteries 6V 240Ah, ie 24V bank (wet batteries)

Thanks Yann for the infos,
First, I've a doubt on your PV exposure, I'm not sure that this roof mount could give great results. With chimney/wall on their left, I would say that you must have almost no production in the morning. If you have a little snow on these two series, it could explain this poor production. Sure that your friend must have a better exposure/angle. I would check at first, your PV wiring, voltage and amps output on each string in full sun to verify your array.
Are these pannels oriented toward true South?
What's the size and length of your wiring from PV combiner to the Classic?
Your ratio panel vs battery seems very good, 960W at 28.8V give you 33 amps, that's better than C10, I would limit the output to 30A max in the Classic but that's not the problem.
You was talking about a battery problem which didn't hold the charge, but to me that was not at first a Classic or battery problem. It's a PV problem! For sure, this lack of power is going to kill your set of batteries. Sulfation occurs when a battery is kept day after day in a low state of charge. It could be corrected with regular full charges plus equalizing charge (controlled voltage overcharge after a full charge, at 31/32Vdc for 4 or more hours until the problem is corrected).
If you want to save this bank, you should charge it at 100% and to equalize with a 24/30A charger on the grid or a generator.
Check your array first,
Erik

[dgd]

Yes, here, the sun shines sometimes in February, and the Classic produces with good irradiation !!


- A MNGP capture, with more than 21.2 Amps in Absorb mode

- A LocalApp capture with a record of 1054 watts with 960W panels

Your PVs perform really well when they see the sun, it looks like they are almost vertilcal so sun must be low in February. Not much PV power otherwise, certainly not anywhere near enough to keep those batteries healthy, more PVs? Although the balance of battery capacity vs PV ratings looks about right you are not getting the needed PV input in winter.
I would suggest adding more PVs, another 4 of the same. In summer if there is too much power from the PVs use the Classic to divert to water heating.
Do you get much wind at your location? Have you considered including a wind turbine?  Even a microturbine just directly connected to the batteries would be good for them.

dgd

[SolarMusher]

Your PVs perform really well when they see the sun, it looks like they are almost vertilcal so sun must be low in February. Not much PV power otherwise, certainly not anywhere near enough to keep those batteries healthy, more PVs? Although the balance of battery capacity vs PV ratings looks about right you are not getting the needed PV input in winter.
I would suggest adding more PVs, another 4 of the same. In summer if there is too much power from the PVs use the Classic to divert to water heating.
Do you get much wind at your location? Have you considered including a wind turbine?

dgd

dgd is right, but I don't understand how 960W array with more than 1kw at peak could only give 600W max day on a great day...
Sounds to me like a shadow problem.
1.265/75 is 100% SOC but 1.180 is below 50% DOD, do not wait to charge these batteries!
Erik

[SolarMusher]

Totally agree with West and dgd.
You could add more panels, but if your panels/Classic are performing fine in full sunshine, maybe a ground or pole mount could increase dramatically your daily production if trees are not a problem here. Do not forget that a simple leaf or snow that you can't sweep everyday, because climbing on roof is not easy, might result in a low production at the end.
My panels are swept every morning to keep them 100% efficient (totaly off-grid), not sure that you can do it daily on your roof from what I could see on pics  .
Erik

[Westbranch]

SM &DGD, I think the answer is in that screen dump of the dashboard, it shows he had a peak of ~110w , ~ 7hrs < 70 W between 09:00 and 17:00 on Feb 7.....  he just isn't getting enough solar insolation, if this is an average day.  Total this day, mental calc. ~ 420Wh to 500+Wh being generous.

Actually that is only a bit below a 70% derating 960 * .7 = 672 without taking the vertical orientation into account and shadows.

[SolarMusher]

West, I agree but this shot could have been take on a dark day, on the other hand his array can reach more than 900/1kw, so to me a great day with vertical panels in february should be in the 2kw range (enough to charge 50/60 amps after a three days discharge).
Maybe a good battery monitor could help.
As a rule of thumb, I always try to charge my bank at 100% on the third day no matter it's from the sun or gen.
Erik

[Westbranch]

Battery Monitor - Absolutely!

SG readings should have drawn attention too!

[dgd]

1.265/75 is 100% SOC but 1.180 is below 50% DOD, do not wait to charge these batteries!
Erik

I missed this     those batteries will be dying already.
Yann, if you dont have a grid connection and charger I would suggest you beg/borrow/hire a genny and give these batteries a good equalise charging asap. And use the genny to keep them charged when PV input cant keep up with load usage..
dgd

[SolarMusher]

Yessir!
Sounds like a, poor PV exposure=>sulfated batteries=>low classic production problem...
These sulfated batteries could also give a false voltage reading to the Classic which ends the charge too quickly.
Vicious circle. EQ, EQ quicky please!
Erik

David,
You are too fast for me 

[offgridQLD]

Funny how often the simple things like Whr in VS Whr each day out is overlooked. And when there is a shortfall of energy in and your borrowing  your whr shortfall from the battery bank  each day it doesn't take long before your system drains it self into the ground.

If your off grid and don't have a generator and get desperate to get some charge into the battery's. Even separating you bank into 2s just to be able to  for  charge at 12v from your car with some long jumper leads. Anything is better than letting the battery s sit at that level during low light conditions/ bad weather. Or even take all loads off the bank if you can afford to do so.

Kurt