Local App - SNAFU :-|

[Lya72]

On the batteries with 15.9V during the charge, the SG was 1.20/1.21.

The temp is very stable  : 5.7 degrees Celsius = 42.26 degrees Fahrenheit

The 2  6V batteries are  bubbling.


Yann

[Lya72]

So, before going to bed, as asked, the voltage measure on the batteries poles with two multimeters :

15.43/15.44 Volts
SG : 1.22

Photos enclosed.

Same treatment is running on the second 12V pack, for the end of the night....

[SolarMusher]

On the batteries with 15.9V during the charge, the SG was 1.20/1.21.

This voltage is too high!
If you can read the same 15.9V when charging with your charger on both 12V strings, either/both charger or/and batteries are defective. As dgd said, it's more likely an EQ voltage and not a regular battery charging voltage. That's why you can smell sulphur. IMO this problem come from your batteries as you have pretty much the same issue with your Classic: Charging voltage quickly rising with discharged batteries.
I'd contact my local dealer and ask if these batteries are still under warranty (maybe)... and buy another charger quickly, but a good one 
Erik

[Westbranch]

Yann, here is a thread on another Forum.  It is similar to your case. Note the absorb times used, Array size and battery size.

www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/showthread.php?14333-Specific-Gravity


What do you other guys think about there being a layer of water/diluted electrolyte on top of the plates?
(2L /4 batts. =1/2L per batt) and if not EQ the water is still laying there... and the gassing is getting things mixed up? 

Given the amount of charge V and current this rise is this rise out of the range to be expected?
I can understand the fast rise if the batts are near full charge, hence my question about a water layer...  but with the loads they should be in a deficit state.....??

The resting V in the morning should help fill in the puzzle.
If Low = bad batteries (All 4??) with hi surface charge? 
If Hi = partial recovery
Yann said:
@ 14:15 the V = 15.9
@ 14 :52 (37 min.) V = 15.43 so it has dropped ~ .5V already.

[dgd]

So, before going to bed, as asked, the voltage measure on the batteries poles with two multimeters :

15.43/15.44 Volts
SG : 1.22

Photos enclosed.

Same treatment is running on the second 12V pack, for the end of the night....

Yann,

These voltages are just too weird, when you remove  the charger what is the battery resting voltage and again what is it after resting all night?
Do the batteries look in good physical condition,  is there bulging of any of  the sides of any battery?  When you look at the terminals and inter cell
connections on each battery does it appear that any of these have risen up, even a little, from the cell body or casing?

dgd

[Halfcrazy]

Not to sound like I am questioning the use of the Hygrometer but in that last picture it looks like the bulb may be setting on the bottom. Have you tried another Hygrometer?

[dgd]

What do you other guys think about there being a layer of water/diluted electrolyte on top of the plates?
(2L /4 batts. =1/2L per batt) and if not EQ the water is still laying there... and the gassing is getting things mixed up? 

Given the amount of charge V and current this rise is this rise out of the range to be expected?
I can understand the fast rise if the batts are near full charge, hence my question about a water layer...  but with the loads they should be in a deficit state.....??

So the SG measurement could be wrong due to stratification with water being topmost layer... with the gassing these batteries are doing I'd expect well mixed acid. I agree the voltage rise is just not realistic with that small charger, I'm leaning towards dud batteries as Erik has suggested..
If Yann tells us the voltage in the morning after the batteries have rested all night then we should know if they are duds.

dgd

[Lya72]

Hi all,

After resting during 6h00, the first pack voltage goes down to 12.96 Volts.
On this pack, the SG was 1.23

On the second pack charging in the night, the SG was a little 1.24 and the finishing voltage was 15.31 Volts.

No physical deformation on the batteries.

Yann

[Lya72]

Going to work for twelve hours.

I reconstructed the 24V Battery bank and put it in charge with 2A.
At this hour, the charging voltage is 27.9V.

Yann

[Westbranch]

that  is good news, things are improving, keep us informed when you start the next round of charging.
late night here now.

[SolarMusher]

Yann,
On the next sunny day, disconnect your loads and set the classic to 29.4V with an absorb time varimax disabled (101amps) to 5 hours (temporarily) and with End Amperes (EA) to 3.5A. At the end of absorbing, check the end current (amps) on your classic to be sure 3.5A is a good value for EA, decrease/increase as you need. At the end of absorb (maybe around 3.5/4A end current) , carefully look at the timer in ChrgTime=>view, and note the time spent in absorb before the classic goes to Float, it will be a good data for a given DOD when you'll have to set your max absorb time. Check your SG in each cells and note it. Start an EQ at 32V for one hour if you have enough sunny time. Your Classic will finish the job if these batteries could be recovered.
If you still need to improve SG, charge your batteries with your charger all night, check SG and start a longer EQ (3-4 hours) in the morning with your classic.
Also if if you want to use varimax, I'd suggest that you set it low, say 2A max, to be sure that you'd have the longer absorption possible on these batteries but if you know exactly how much amps your loads draw and if they are constant loads, you'd better use EA to end absorption and disable varimax, it will be more accurate.
Ryan is right, hydometer float seems to be at bottom on your pics and possibly gave false/wrong SG readings, fill it wih more electrolyte.
Erik

[Westbranch]

Been thinking about that hydrometer issue.  If more electrolyte is added to the Hydrometer,  and if the bulb HAS been on the bottom, it may sink lower, to a lower SG...  hope this is not the case.

[TomW]

Somewhat related:

Awhile back I gave up on floating bulb hydrometers.

Got a Robinair refractometer type and never looked back.

Only uses 1 drop of fluid, no temp compensation required, easy to use:



http://www.amazon.com/Robinair-75240-Coolant-Battery-Refractometer/dp/B000HTNODE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360603781&sr=8-1&keywords=robinair+75240

Mine was a bit cheaper but still worth it to protect a couple grand in batteries.

Tom

[Westbranch]

here is one available in Europe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUBffSv2O0  (for info)
also
http://seekpart24.com/hp/battery-aci...t-tester-18115
and
http://seekpart24.com/search?q=8PD006541001

but shipping to NA is a killer

[Lya72]

Thanks to all, for your informations.

Thanks Tom and WestBranch for your links. I will have more than a look to these.
Note (the first seekpart24 URL is incomplete) Can you edit the link please ?

After a contact with the batteries vendor, today, he asked me charge the batteries with 1A for 50-60 hours to desulfate them. My little charger is able to do that in manual mode. Yesss !

Today, SG 1.24, so I will charge one more day.

He also asked me precises logs for the values during each charge stage with the Classic, to match these with my voltages logs.
I was very disapointed to say him that my logs don't show the charge stages so I'm unable to respond to his enquiries.

Erik, thanks for the detailed procedure BUT :

- I will have to find all these parameters in the dedale menu.
- it seems to me that I will have to be in front of my Classic to get the values on a sunny day.  ARGGHHHH I'm working  all the day.


The manual didn't update and no Beta firmware on the logs front,  IS THERE A STRIKE at Midnite Solar ??


Yann