Problem setting the Classic 150

[windy]

Here is my setup,
Otherpower designed generator with 17 foot diameter blade
Battery bank- 4 AGM 12 volt batteries connected in series
Classic 150 controller, set to 48 volts
Wind curve set to Otherpower 17 ft with 48 Volt battery Classic A
Aux1 set to PV V on high, 110 volts off, 120 volts on, using a SSR Three Phase Relay
Aux2 set to Diversion High, set at 54.6 volts, using a SSR

I am not using an inverter, as all of the generator  power goes to the water heater dump load, controlled with AUX2. The dump load is rated  80 amps at 48 volts. It is two DC water heater elements, with all four elements tied parallel. Resistance is .4 ohms.

Here is my problem.
I cannot seem to keep the generator from overspeeding. I made different settings on the wind curve, but no matter how I set it, it would speed up to the AUX1 set point ,which would bring the speed back down. AUX2 is sending some power to the dump load, but not enough to hold the speed down. I can toggle test the SSR. They both turn on and off.

I tried to set the clipper control from DC to AC, but that didn't seem to change anything. Even changing the width doesn't seem to change anything.

I have never seen over 15 amps going to the dump load even in a 15 MPH wind, but the controller keeps the batteries at float voltage. The yellow LED flashes when AUX2 is activated.

Another thing I noticed is that even at 15 amps going to the dump load, the controller gets hot enough to start the vent fan in the controller. Is that normal? Also, when AUX2 is active, it sounds like a relay chattering. Is that the sound that it should make, or should it be more like a buzzing noise.

I had to shut down the generator tonight. The windmill looked like it was running fast for a 10 MPH wind. Looked at the controller and it was showing the input voltage at 93 volts at .9 amps and the battery voltage at 54.6 volts at 1.9 amps.

Starting to wonder if there is something wrong with the controller. Serial Number is CL03658,  Rev1043. Any questions or comments welcomed!

windy

[Watt]

If the dump load is properly connected to your batteries, you should see ( with .4 ohms of elements ) from 120 to 135 amps when the ssr is active.  Seems to me you may have a wiring issue unless you get that amperage when manually activated.

As far as the chattering, is there a chance the aux port is over loaded?  Are you connected with a load smaller than or equal to the maximum allowable load for that port?

Have you read this thread?  http://midnitesolar.com/smf_forum/index.php?topic=886.msg5960#msg5960

This may be a silly question ( and until the experts reply ) are you using waste not?

[boB]

Thank you for the very good explanation of your setup !

Usually, the clipping is done using Aux 2...
3-phase  AC SSR is preferred (that is what you are using) and set to AC ( which you have used)...

Of course, the turbine side load resistance must be low enough to be able to slow it down
but high enough that it doesn't make the turbine chatter too much.  That SSR will usually
also be synchronous turn on (zero crossing) but I believe that most of them are.
Also, the width works better at the higher turbine voltage than it will at lower battery
voltages.  When set to DC clipper more for Aux 2, the PWM frequency comes down to
around 20 Hz and the width is MUCH wider than in AC clipper mode.
So, AC mode is preferred as it will tell the AC SSR to switch at around 500 Hz which usually
makes it smoother...  That is, if the dump load resistance isn't too low.

The lower frequency for DC clipping os to help reduce kick-back voltage of the (usually)
inductive wire wound dump load resistors.

If the turbine has trouble slowing down, you may want to try closing the turbine gap some
so it brakes better.

The battery side dumping would usually be controlled from Aux 1 as long as Aux 2 is being
used for the clipper.

You might want to try swapping the two Aux's and see if that helps.

As Watt mentioned, Waste-Not works fairly well for the battery side dump control and
you will want to have the Delay time short, on the order of 0.1 second and the hold time
(to start with) maybe around 0.5 to 1.0 second or higher and the relative voltage around
-0.5 volts or so to start with.

You may want to try some of this before assuming the Classic isn't working correctly,
although that could certainly be the case.

boB

[Halfcrazy]

I would also ask when the turbine seems to be spinning to fast and not making amperage is the controller still in bulk or is it in absorb? It sounds to me like the dumpload is not sufficient and the controller has to limit to avoid overcharging the battery.

The 17ft machine is a very powerful machine we watched 5-8KW pretty steady Yesterday here during Nemo out of my neighbors. Mage something like 60-70KWH between midnight and noon 

Ryan

[windy]

Thanks for all the replies.

Watt,
I am using the D1D100 Crydom SSR, so that should be fine. I checked the amperage with AUX2 active and it was drawing 80 amps, so that shouldn't be a problem.  I did try using waste-not high but that didn't seem to work any better.

boB,
I thought that the PWM on AUX2 would work better for battery dumping . I will have to try switching around the AUX's and see if that works.

Halfcrazy,
When I shut it down, I did notice that the controller was in absorb mode.

There is a blizzard moving into the area tonight, so it may be a few days before I try again. I don't want to leave it run, in case there is something wrong with the controller.

windy

[Halfcrazy]

Well it sure does sound like a diversion load issue. Realize if you used the standard John's 1 curve for that turbine it redlines at like 130 ish volts. That aside it sure sounds like the small battery bank is getting driven to the absorb setpoint and the Classic is letting go of the turbine.

Ryan

[Volvo Farmer]

That aside it sure sounds like the small battery bank is getting driven to the absorb setpoint and the Classic is letting go of the turbine.

Ryan

That's what it sounds like to me as well.  I wonder what would happen if he set the bulk up around 62 volts, left the dump at 54.6 and watched the thing carefully to see if the dump load was big enough to keep the battery voltage from running away in high winds.  I know with my 10 footer and Xantrex c60 diversion controller, I have to keep the turbine in bulk all the time or the classic will unload it, and the turbine will over-speed if it ever hits the absorb voltage.

[boB]

That aside it sure sounds like the small battery bank is getting driven to the absorb setpoint and the Classic is letting go of the turbine.

Ryan

That's what it sounds like to me as well.  I wonder what would happen if he set the bulk up around 62 volts, left the dump at 54.6 and watched the thing carefully to see if the dump load was big enough to keep the battery voltage from running away in high winds.  I know with my 10 footer and Xantrex c60 diversion controller, I have to keep the turbine in bulk all the time or the classic will unload it, and the turbine will over-speed if it ever hits the absorb voltage.

Remember that the Classic will also need to unload the turbine and activate
the clipper if it runs into current limit...  even if  in bulk.

boB

[windy]

boB,

Switched the two aux ports around and it seems to be working now. I was able to see 25 to 30 amps going into the water heater dump load, controlled with AUX1 and battery voltage stayed at 54 volts. Wind today was only around 10 to 15 MPH. I have AUX2 set at 120 volt and when I manually disconnect AUX1, the turbine speeds up until it hits 120 volts, and AUX2 starts to PWM to my other dump load. Input voltage stays at 120.
I'll have to wait for stronger winds to see how everything works.

A couple other questions I have.
Being that my batteries are AGM type, and they don't have to be equalized, what should  the settings for float, absorb, and time settings be. I have float set at 54.5 and absorb at 54.6. Charge status is float MMPT. Also, I don't understand what the end amps and rebulk settings do, so I just left them set as is. Could you explain?

When setting the different steps of the wind graph, what do you look for to get the most out of the generator. Also, when setting up the last step of the wind curve, do I keep  the voltage set at around what I have AUX2 set at?

I'm still not sure how to set everything, so bear with me as I try to get it set.

Thanks!
windy

[Westbranch]

what brand and model are they? charging AGMs is very specific...

[windy]

Westbranch,

They are EnerSys-Data-Safe #HX 300-FR.
On the battery, it states the float voltage as 13.6 volts. I have four batteries in series so I have the float set at 45.4 volts.

username

You are right, Vic
Should be 54.4 volts

[Vic]

Hi Windy,

I'll bet that the 13.6 X 4 result that you posted is just a TYPO.  Would seem to be more like 54.4 V,  as I see it.

pick,  pick   ...   pick!     Vic

[boB]

Looking at the maintenance PDF for this series of batteries, it sounds like they say to
do a 4 or 5 times a year semi-EQualization charge at about  57.6  (2.40 volt per cell).
It didn't exactly use the word "Equalization", but that's most likely what they mean.
They also want you to limit the charging current to the battery, but I'm not sure if
you have enough power to run up against that limit.

"Fast Recharge
Occasionally (4 or 5 times a year) the battery may be recharged at 2.40 VPC
with a current limited to the values listed in the Table"

I would think that you would want to charge these with an Absorb voltage higher than
what you are using for Float voltage, (54.4V), but I don't see a precise recommendation
for Absorb voltage in this document...  I'm thinking something around 56.0 volts at
25 degrees C but this is just a guess.

http://www.enersysreservepower.com/documents/US-HX-IOM-004_0912.pdf


End Amps just lets the charger go from Absorb to Float when the battery current
at the Absorb voltage drops below a certain value before the Absorb timer/counter
has finished counting down to zero from its usual 2 or 3 or 4 hours setting.
This is probably not the best to rely on because the Classic does not yet know
the difference between the current going into the battery and what current is also
going into the loads connected to the charger and batteries.  The up and coming
current shunt monitor adapter will be able to tell the Classic this information.

This MNCSM will also be able to help limit the charging current for batteries
that would have too high of charging current according to the batteries spec sheet.

The Classic starts a new Bulk/Absorb charge cycle once per 24 hours.  The Re-Bulk
setting allows the Classic to start another Bulk/Absorb cycle more often if the battery
voltage drops below the Re-Bulk voltage setting for longer than about 60 seconds.

The wind curve adjustment at high output current will want to be set to below the
clipper setting if possible.

As for the proper curve for maximum power, until we get wind curve learning software
working, it will be trial and error, unfortunately. The curves in the MNGP memory that
come stock are as close as we know about at the moment for this type of turbine.
I'm sure it can be adjusted better, but there was a pretty good amount of time
devoted to the basic curve.  I guarantee that if the curve can be improved, this will
happen as soon as learning software is working,

boB