KID Clipper

[boB]

Does that mean you need two KIDs in Bully mode and two Clippers?

Oh Yeah !  I forgot !

The Clipper uses the load output of the Kid instead of an SSR so, yes, you
would need another load switcher.  You ~could~ add an external DC SSR
I suppose and trigger it somehow.

boB

[vtmaps]

Well "Bully Mode" is unique. Basically you use Bully mode when you have a single large array. So you connect the single array up to the 2 kids and put the master in bully mode and it takes over the second kid. So one display and one control

I think boB or Robin once mentioned that they were working on a stackable controller.  I think that turned into the Kid.  Is there some reason you don't refer to it as stacking?

--vtMaps

[Robin]

We do mention that you can stack two KIDs for a 60 amp controller. Maybe we need to make a bigger deal out of it. I do not think any other controller can do this yet. The 600V Morningstar will soon though. That controller is in a different league at $2000.
The 7th wiring diagram in the KID manual shows the parallel hook up. We are testing new KID code right now that fixes a small issue with stacking. The Paralleled units we have been testing are within 1 amp of each other as far as sharing current. We are very pleased with how they are working. As soon as Ryan and Tom have verified that this new code does what it is supposed to do, it will be up on our web for downloading. Ryan is sort of snowed in and freezing up in Maine so there may not be a lot of sun for testing?. Of course with -35 degree weather, I wouldn't blame him for not wanting to go outside if that is required to put them in parallel. The KID can also be placed in Follow Me mode like the Classic. We may be able to make the Classic stackable too, but we have been thinking of making a larger controller with all the features of the Classic, but without fans. This would require a lot more transistors and a large heat sink. We have 7 Fets on the KID, but only 8 on the Classic which is more than twice as powerful. We do not let the KID get as hot as the Classic and we think that will show up as increased reliability. Some of the KIDs will be mounted in RV's and boats where you can touch the heat sink, so we limit the temperature for appearance reasons. The Classic was designed to do what it does and at higher temperatures, but of course with all power electronics, the cooler they run, the longer they last. We have been field testing th4 KID for quite a while now. There have been numerous issues with code. Some of them did pretty bad things, but we have never blown up a KID in the field! Pretty impressive.
By the way, if we do a larger version of the KID, it may also be stackable.
By the way, boB is working on code for the Classic now that will allow the WB Jr. to be a real fuel gauge. We expect this code will migrate to the KID too in the near future.

[dgd]

A larger KID, maybe 40amps? and stackable too 
With the lack of an ethernet interface perhaps there is a need here for an external network (SNMP) box that connects to KID's usb and can provide a web interface.
The only issue I could see with this is that two or more KID's stacked and networked could be preferred to a Classic 150.
dgd

[Robin]

When I said larger version of the KID I meant something above 100 amps output.
People will be working on an interface to the internet for the KID. This may or may not be a MidNite product though. Give it a little time and you will probably see at least three devices available.
If you already knew that you would want stacked KIDs and the internet, it would make sense to just get the Classic, but sometimes money doesn't allow for that all at once. The Classic would be a better choice in that case, but then some people will be able to add more capability over the years and still get similar results while still preserving the beer fund.

[mahendra]

network charge state would be nice between/among classics and kid would be nice in future if it is possible .I my self is considering the kid with its clipper function/capabilities.

[Halfcrazy]

I think the intent is to have the Classic and Kid do Follow Me. I will chat with the Engineers on this one.

Ryan

[mahendra]

yes that is what i am implying Ryan and thanks.

[dgd]

When I said larger version of the KID I meant something above 100 amps output.

Nice.. what is limiting the KID to 30 amps max output now? Is this a limit imposed by the firmware? Seems there are enough FETs to allow more - or is this mainly a temperature issue with more FETs running cooler.
Can we get a software setting to increase max output amps  in a similar way that the MX60 had that up to 70amps capability?  I would be happy to mount the KID on a nice big heatsink for another 10 or 15 amps 

dgd

[dgd]

Also any chance of getting an AUX output from the KID that is Clipper control in case a large Clipper is preferred to control an AC turbine
Could two KIDS be stacked to deal with larger turbine?
dgd

[Halfcrazy]

When I said larger version of the KID I meant something above 100 amps output.

Nice.. what is limiting the KID to 30 amps max output now? Is this a limit imposed by the firmware? Seems there are enough FETs to allow more - or is this mainly a temperature issue with more FETs running cooler.
Can we get a software setting to increase max output amps  in a similar way that the MX60 had that up to 70amps capability?  I would be happy to mount the KID on a nice big heatsink for another 10 or 15 amps 

dgd

I think the limiting factor is the fact it is a single inductor. So the inductor and caps get hot first. The Big Kid will likely have 3 cylinders

Ryan

[Halfcrazy]

Also any chance of getting an AUX output from the KID that is Clipper control in case a large Clipper is preferred to control an AC turbine
Could two KIDS be stacked to deal with larger turbine?
dgd

I see no reason both of those could not be a reality. True Paralleling works great on Solar so we will have to see what it does when we start playing with wind and I assume Aux out to the clipper is an easy function.

[Robin]

We have designed the KID for reliability. That means temperature. We did not put a fan in it because people just don't like fans. The parts all are pretty much running the temperature we want at 30 amps, so we cannot simply increase the output. If we could safely do that, we could charge more money for it! But....that isn't going to happen. Ryan is correct, the Big Kid will have 3 or four cylinders.

[dgd]

Now that I have had a KID up and going for a week I can appreciate that its designed to fill a particular market need for a decent mid level 30amp controller.
Probably just right for the RV, motorhome, boat and small cabin market where pv size is limited and its likely the people using it will normally be within sight of the controller and can therefore see what is happening on that 2 line display.
But in a medium to larger home system the problem is the lack of remote communications with the KID. If you can't be next to it then you can't see what is happening. Also since these PV systems tend to be larger then this is where the Classic comes in.

So now that a larger KID has been mentioned, possibly over 100A output capability, then the issue of communications comes back. Or are we just looking at an extended KID with display only? I suppose if it was designed with either an attachable comms module with everything needed to support that, or a built in ethernet interface, then is it starting to just offer similar features to the classic range.
Are there any plans yet to make the Mk2 Classic? and the 600V controller?
dgd

[Robin]

Talk of a Big Kid is referring to a large controller that , like the KID. has no fan. The features will be more along the lines of the Classic though. We will have lots of good stuff here, especially communications. The KID itself won't be getting Ethernet anytime soon. We would like some of the smart Forum guys to create this from boards such as the Raspberry Pi or others like that. The KID may be able to have a remote display at some point. It does have a communications jack that was originally put there for stacking, but it can be used for other communications as well.
One very nice feature that is incorporated into the KID is true parallel operation. You can start small and as your needs grow add another KID for a 60 amp controller. Now it isn't so midsized, but you did not have to spend all the money at once.
We are not planning on a 600V controller at this time. There are now two manufacturers that make 600V controllers. I wonder if either one of them are happy with reliability, sales and performance. I would be surprised if they are happy. The Morningstar 600V controller will cost you $2500 by the time you get it hooked up. That is almost a buck a watt. $2500 for 3000 watts. The Classic Lite can be as cheap as $.16 per watt.
($700 for 4400 watts).
I don't know what we would need to charge for a 600V controller, but I do not think the quantities would justify the development expense. High voltage is a real @&%@!