Dynamote Brutus Inverter

[tecnodave]

Has anyone had any experience with these? Appears to be industrial inverter 3kw. For utility trucks for power tool duty, no limit on reactive or capacive load 10 kW surge very heavy built

One came by cheap.

td

[mahendra]

Are the MSW or psw

[tecnodave]

Manendra,

Claim is pure sine wave even with huge inductive load, I have found pictures of them in fire trucks and electric company bucket trucks, at 88 lbs. < edit 65 lbs. >. These are not light weight units, maybe made in Shoreline Washington. Maybe out of business and bought by Vanner, a bus electrical outfit.

Guy here local has 2 of them for $250/ ea.   looks new. But that is too good a deal not to be leery,

3kw. Continous, <edit 3.2 kW continous> 11.6 kW peak. Pure sine wave $250.    Retail $2295.00

td

[tecnodave]

To all,

I have found that Dynamote was bought by Vanner. These units are 10 years old or older and do not have the modern interfaces that people so want today.

They were in a solar power homestead in northern CA,

The gentleman who has them is a solar contractor and pulled them and replaced with Outback

So the deal comes down to 2 Dynamote 3kw. <3.2 kW> 24 volt inverters and a C-40 or two thrown in for $400?

Gonna go look at them , sure would like some feedback from anyone who has used them.

td

[mahendra]

well the list price tell of the quality .i have seen from reviews the old trace inverter works well even today

[tecnodave]

Well it comes from good roots, Brian Faley, director of technology at Outback was the chief engineer at Dynamote and also worked at Magnum, Trace, and Millenium as chief engineer or related capacity.

Hard research turns up interesting tidbits. These were widely used in Fire and Rescue Trucks and EMS Ambulances. Later they were adopted for R.E. use.

I need a big inverter for my workshop to run big power tools that tax anything that I have tried and want a Magna-Sine  MSH 4024 RE because it can sync with a generator or utility power to share the load. But at $2400 that one is going to wait awhile.

[boB]

Dynamote was also started in Seattle and was one of the first, if not the first sinewave inverter of this type and topology.

Another engineer that worked on the Brutus and at Trace Engineering (until he died in his ultralight) was Milt Rice.
A very talented engineer and nice guy !

These inverters also had what they called a Co-Inverter that was a smaller inverter used to reduce idle power
at low loads.  Don't know if this particular one had that addition or not.

[tecnodave]

boB

I had never heard of a smaller inverter inside to cut down idle losses so I don't if this one has that. It does have only the Brutus name but the label on back appears to be headed with "Vanner" so this one probably built shortly after Vanner bought Dynamote in '94 . Later units had the Vanner  Name on the front.

One of the reviews (home power) said that it had rather large idle draw at 90 watts, but was an excellent unit. I need a beefy inverter to run large power tools in my shop on an as needed basis.

I'd like to know if this would make sense to buy this one for this use. I'm patiently waiting for a midnite product but need something now as fuel for Onan is not cheep.

td

[tecnodave]

boB,

I think that you are right about the "smaller inverter" inside, it sure looks like that as there is a main transformer and a smaller one. It is H-bridge with a low freq transformer, huge heat sink and 32 FET's in four banks. Hybrid design?

Now I am in the search for a schematic and technical manual. I have the owners manual. Discreet logic, not computer based.

td

[boB]

T-Dave, are you sure the other magnetics in there is not an inductor ?
Or maybe an auxiliary power supply ?

The design should be similar to the Magnum and Outback FX inverters in that it creates
a 60 Hz sine-wave from a high frequency PWM signal and boosts the voltage up by
the large transformer.

Does this also have a built in charger ?  PFC charger maybe even ?

[tecnodave]

boB,

The smaller transformer is on the control board and has a 120/240 primary and a 8/16 volt secondary.
It makes more sense that it would be a part of the 60 Hz generator. I have not found schematics yet but internally is like the outback.

It is an inverter only. I have iota DLS 55 /IQ4 chargers (2)

I am going to test this afternoon with my 1 1/2 hp "hot dog" air compressor  14.5 amps with a huge start surge under load. Senco with the "lower amps motor" capacitor start/capacitor run with no head unloader....a Chinese inverter smoker!

td

[tecnodave]

boB,

You are absolutely right!

Dynamote was also started in Seattle and was one of the first, if not the first sinewave inverter of this type and topology.

The design should be similar to the Magnum and Outback FX inverters in that it creates
a 60 Hz sine-wave from a high frequency PWM signal and boosts the voltage up by
the large transformer.

Ok, I missed that, I had assumed that the FET's were driven at 60 Hz but that would not produce a sine wave. Maybe MSW, but not a clean sine wave.

So I think I am seeing 8 drive channels driving the FET's, are they triggered independently from the PWM driver to achieve the sine wave?

Ok so the little transformer is in the feedback loop, it's driven by the output transformer. I do see the output conditioning inductor but is there an inductor between the FET banks and the main transformer?  That is what I do not see in there.

There is also another winding that is connected to the control board. Drive?

You got me to do the research on this and now I am curious. It would appear that this design evolved into the Outback FX and Magna Sine designs?

I found no schematic as yet, just some info from "A Review of Inverter design and Topologies" by Trace and Brian Faley's  "history and Future of Inverters in Washington State"

Am I way of base, I have not hooked up scope as yet but my curious will compel me to do that.

td

[tecnodave]

To all,

I did buy the Brutus inverters, I really wanted an old trace or the new Magna Sine Hybird RE inverter but money$$    Load test 1 1/2 hp Senco Air compressor at full load and Skil Mag77HD worm drive  at max power cutting Oak 4 x 6 pallet rail, no significant drop in voltage, freq. dead on 60hz , and excellent waveshape despite a huge highly reactive load >35 amps,  Idle current is a bit much @4 amps, but I use this one for that occasional load, not full time run. I have smaller inverters to handle that.

It will pay off quick vs gasoline for the 4 and 6.5 kW Onan generators that I'm using in my system

td

[cmillett]

hi,

I used to repair these 30 years ago.  They are a terrific inverter, but they don't work quite the way you think.

The inverter connects directly to the vehicle alternator using the RED lead.  The GREEN lead connects to the old alternator lead, and the BLACK goes to ground.  Strange but true.

The inverter works by increasing the output voltage of the alternator to approximately 60VDC.  It uses large SCR's to switch the input to a transformer, which produces the 120VAC.  It also creates 13.8 VDC to charge the vehicle battery.  Usually, the engine needs to be running at approximately 1500 to 2000 RPM to create the power to produce the maximum output from the inverter.  If the engine isn't running, you won't get any power out of the inverter.

I may have a manual somewhere for this.  I have been gradually cleaning 40 years of manuals out of my shop and it may already be gone.  Drop me a line if you'd like a digital copy and I will see what I can do.  I think the last time I looked at one was 1989 or so.

Regards,

Clint

[tecnodave]

Clint,

Welcome to the forum,

Thanks for the info, Vanner does make "Dynamic" inverters that connect to the vehicle alternator to provide about 60 volts DC which is then run through a inverter with the 60 volts DC in and 120 v / 60 Hz. Output.

The Dynamic Inverters were called  the "Dynamote A" line. They are mostly used in fire rescue,ambulances, and utility trucks. These units only work with an alternator input and the alternator is controlled by the inverter. They output 2-6kw. 120 v.A.C. plus 120 amps 12 volts DC for the vehicle to operant on.

These units are the ones you are referring to, model numbers are A-20, A-30, A-40, and A-60

They also manufacture The "Dynamote  Brutus "  line of "Static Inverters"  in 12 volt and 24 volt DC input to 120 volt AC at 2.0 to 3.2 kW.

Both of my units are "Static Inverters"  Dynamote Brutus model TB32-24,  24 volts DC in 120 v. AC out @ 3200 watts cont. 11,400 watts surge.

Dynamote company of Shoreline Washington developed both of these lines and sold the company to Vanner, a bus and truck supply company in about 1992.

The Brutus was first developed as one of the first off grid Inverters. and is the first of the high frequency driver / low frequency transformer type of inverter that has been adopted by Outback, Magnum and others.

That said, if you do have a technical manual for this inverter I could sure use it. I have the original operators manual, but no schematic as yet.
I do have a Vanner A line Dynamic inverter manual, totally a different unit.

Did you work for Vanner or some repair shop?  there are still repair shops that repair these inverters as they are very robust.

td

<edited extensively for accuracy>. td