Classic Out of a Pair Not pulling its Weight

[finalman]

As the topic says I have a pair of midnight classics 150's one Standard and on SL version. Each has their own array of matching panels one array is pointing north and the other is a rotatable East and west array. The standard Classic version is on the north array and the SL is on the E-W array. The classics are on Follow-me with the master being the standard classic which also has the Whiz-bang Jr and shunt as well as the temp sensor.

The problems occurs as the north array looses the sun in the afternoon and the panels also shade but the E-W array facing West on the Classic SL doesn't pick up the slack usually floating at around 10w when the North array on the standard classic floats at around 50w. The E-W array is perfectly capable of handling that amount as the North array drops off in the afternoon.

I already knew about this issue and believe it to be a firmware issue as changing the arrays over changes the issue over to the other Classic. Only really concerns me now as my system is 99% complete and is about to go live...aka...start using it and retire my old 12v system in favour of the new 48v system.

[Vic]

Hi finalman,

If both of the Classics are Floating,  then there should be no concern.   If the Classics are in Float MPPT,  this would mean that there is insufficient PV power to maintain the Vfloat.

Any voltage-regulating charge stage (Absorb, Float or EQ),  will exhibit current sharing in varying degrees among multiple charge sources.

A bit of fine-tuning can help,  by changing Voffset,  or Absorb and Float between each of the charge sources (Classics,  in this case).

If the Absorb or Float mode is not in  MPPT,  you will probably see different sharing of charge current between the two Classics,  depending upon the demands on the CCs  (inverter loads,  and required charge current into the battery).

Vic

[zoneblue]

Lets get this straight youre concerned about the difference in float sharing of 10W v 50W. Thats nothing. All followme does is tell the other controllers to change charge mode at the same time as the master. After that they are on their own, and uneven sharing is inevitable. And a whole lot more uneven than 50W! But as vic said its immaterial because in float you are only using a fraction of the production potential anyway.

OTOH if you have an issue with one of the controllers going to sleep and taking the other with it, there were some changes to the last firmware which might be a factor there. A work around miight be to try changing the master controller to the one that gets the longer daylight.

[finalman]

I giving my almost complete system a trial run interesting I noticed also that the E-W rotatable array facing East this morning started charging only after the North facing array, even though it is tilted to the best position to provide power to the Classic SL before the north array does for it's Classic.

OTOH if you have an issue with one of the controllers going to sleep and taking the other with it, there were some changes to the last firmware which might be a factor there.

In the afternoon that didn't appear to happen as the north array master Classic was resting the west array Classic SL was still working.

A work around might be to try changing the master controller to the one that gets the longer daylight.

Yeah that's my next plan move the E-W rotatable array to the Master Classic and should also fix the mentioned issue at the beginning of this post.

[finalman]

New issue both Classics exited Absorb to early (only in absorb for a few minutes) and then went into resting state and have been sitting there for 10+ minutes. It is still only mid-morning here in Australia. Arrays are still both connected and volts are present at the classics, tested with meter.

EDIT: Opened new thread seen as though it appears unrelated. Link.

http://kb1uas.com/mnsforum/index.php?topic=3102.msg28736#msg28736

[Vic]

final,

A couple of things;  in the first Post in this Thread,  you said,
"   ...   In the arvo that didn't appear to happen as the north array master Classic was resting the west array Classic SL was still working   "

Folks like me do not know just what is an "arvo".

And,  what is the Firmware version of each of these two Classics?
They are both in Follow Me,  are the Blue LEDs on each Classic blinking as they should?

It feels like we are trying to begin in the middle of things ...

Are there any charge sources for the battery on this system,  other than the two Classics?

MidNite gives excellent Support,  please give them a try via e-mail,  probably should not assume that the delay will be too great ...

Later,  Thanks,  Vic

[BobWhite]

final,

A couple of things;  in the first Post in this Thread,  you said,
"   ...   In the arvo that didn't appear to happen as the north array master Classic was resting the west array Classic SL was still working   "

Folks like me do not know just what is an "arvo".

arvo |ˈÉ'ːvəʊ| noun (pl. arvos) Austral./NZ informal
afternoon: on Monday arvo.
ORIGIN 1930s: abbreviation of afternoon (with voicing of the f) + -o .

[Vic]

Thanks BobWhite,

OK,  thanks ...

I did a search on it,  but did not find that in a quick look.

BUT,  seems that the down-unders have a lot of quaint slang,  that does not transport well,  and gets in the way of clearer communication,  at times.

Someone who might be trying to help,  needs to    t r y    to decode these slang words,  when actually trying to help answer a question.

Slang does not transport well across international borders.  And someone who has limited time,  but trying to be a bit of help,  could find one of these words,  and ask for the definition of that single word,  before attempting to guess what might be the issue.   This can stall getting to what is the real issue,  but it is quaint.

AND,  substituting your definition for that word,  it still is a difficult sentence to decode,  as some punctuation might be missing ...

Just trying to help a bit ...  countries divided by a somewhat common language +/--.

But,  it is all good.   Thanks,          Vic

[finalman]

what is the Firmware version of each of these two Classics?

2079

They are both in Follow Me,  are the Blue LEDs on each Classic blinking as they should?

Yes. seeing about every 8 out of 10 being fast blips.

Are there any charge sources for the battery on this system,  other than the two Classics?

No other chargers except the two classics. Actually might have figured out why I was getting the resting issue. See other thread linked above if interested.

I'll see how it performs this afternoon.

UPDATE: Appears to Be acting OK this afternoon.

[australsolarier]

vic

what about american slang words?

contrary to what many americans think, the USA are just part of this world. they are not the center of the universe. US dollar is only valid currency in the USA, for example

just as you are used to american terms and american slangs, and think they are normal, so do some of us think our terms and slangs are normal.

with other words, we grow up with them and they are commonly understood in your local area. and most words are common to american accent and the rest of the world.

so you questioning the term is fair enough.

but i object somewhat to you hectoring and lecturing.

so no worries

[finalman]

Another question related to follow-me mode.

So the standard Classic 150 has the Whiz-Bang Jr with shunt and the Classic 150 SL doesn't.

In terms of ending amps I want the battery bank to end @ 5.6A. The standard Classic 150 is currently set to use the Whiz-Bang Jr with shunt for the ending amps but the Classic SL is only set to end @ 5.6A using the inbuilt shunt in the Classic SL.

What makes my setup more interesting is that I have two matching arrays one North array and one East to West rotatable array, each attached to a different controller. So the amount each array can collect at the same time differs. The East and West Rotatable array does better in the morning and afternoon and the North array does better during the middle of the day.

Now does the Classic SL override the setting of the 5.6A on the Standard classic 150 with Whiz-Bang Jr . Meaning once the Classic SL drops below 5.6A and as an example the standard Classic 150 is pushing say 6A to the battery does it send both to Float?

If so should I set the ending amps on the Classic SL to 0.0A so that only the Standard Classic 150 will command the Classic SL to go to Float. Would that work better?

[dgd]

vic

what about american slang words?

contrary to what many americans think, the USA are just part of this world. they are not the center of the universe. US dollar is only valid currency in the USA, for example

just as you are used to american terms and american slangs, and think they are normal, so do some of us think our terms and slangs are normal.

with other words, we grow up with them and they are commonly understood in your local area. and most words are common to american accent and the rest of the world.

so you questioning the term is fair enough.

but i object somewhat to you hectoring and lecturing.

Don't think he was lecturing or hectoring, just IMHO
Just had two on holiday strangers this arvo stop their kombi outside my bach ,tell me they were just two Tassy boguns stopping for a look at my  solly setup as they offered me a fosters tinny. 

dgd

[australsolarier]

when i was in tassy i had to ask them too what a bogun was. i was told it is a what is called a hooligan in my area.
hehehe

[boB]

Another question related to follow-me mode.

So the standard Classic 150 has the Whiz-Bang Jr with shunt and the Classic 150 SL doesn't.

In terms of ending amps I want the battery bank to end @ 5.6A. The standard Classic 150 is currently set to use the Whiz-Bang Jr with shunt for the ending amps but the Classic SL is only set to end @ 5.6A using the inbuilt shunt in the Classic SL.

What makes my setup more interesting is that I have two matching arrays one North array and one East to West rotatable array, each attached to a different controller. So the amount each array can collect at the same time differs. The East and West Rotatable array does better in the morning and afternoon and the North array does better during the middle of the day.

Now does the Classic SL override the setting of the 5.6A on the Standard classic 150 with Whiz-Bang Jr . Meaning once the Classic SL drops below 5.6A and as an example the standard Classic 150 is pushing say 6A to the battery does it send both to Float?

If so should I set the ending amps on the Classic SL to 0.0A so that only the Standard Classic 150 will command the Classic SL to go to Float. Would that work better?

Yes, you want to set the SL to 0.0 amps ending amps because then non WB Jr. Classic may be ending the Absorb charge too early.

As for the 10  minutes of Resting, that may be because the Classics were waiting for the battery voltage to fall below Float setpoint voltage before re-turning-on again.  No use turning on if the Classic cannot do anything.

Also realize that the battery temperature will vary the set-point voltage.

Not sure why your follow me blue LED flashes slow most of the time.  10% of the time, maybe but not over, say, 50% of the time for sure.  Check your follow me cable connections maybe ?

boB

[finalman]

OK so yeah I set the Classic SL to 0.0 ending amps. Connected the E-W array on the standard Classic 150 which has solved the North array sending both Classics to resting.

So I'm now at a point where I'm now happy with how my system is performing. Still a few small things to do but yeah I've now been live for a week.