Questions from a Newbie

[Scott]

I started working with my Classic 250 last night and I have a few questions.  I hope they're not as stupid as they sound!  I did manage to upgrade the firmware to 6/10/2011 and MNGP: 6/6/2011.  The first time I got a "CRC error" (speed reading required) so I had to reinstall the software.  It'd be helpful if there was a pause in the batch code before the CMD/DOS box closes so users can read the error messages.

Note that I've set the controller for a 48v battery bank, but I have a little 12v battery attached to it so I can learn & program it in comfort.  So here are my questions...

1 -From what I've read, there's no on/off switch, you turn the controller off by removing DC, correct?

2 -When I remove power then reapply, it's forgotten my date, time, lat and lon.  It remembers other parameters though.  I've entered these 4 parameters through the wizard and directly.  Is this an error in the firmware or am I doing something wrong?  I verify the 4 items are missing by navigating though the menus as if I were going to set them.

3 -Even though I set my preferred temp display to F, when I view temps, it show them to me in C.  Am I doing something wrong?

4 -I have an MNDC panel.  I'm confused if I should ground battery "-" in my MNDC panel, in the controller, or not at all.  The way I read the manual, I should not ground battery to "-" anywhere if I want to use the controller's GPF feature.  Please advise.

5 -How do I remove the vertical "VE" label from the bottom right corner of the LCD?






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[Volvo Farmer]

Haha! I am also a newbie, but I can see part of your problem in that picture. See that little strip of tape covering the display? You need to remove that to uncover the battery that saves all your settings. The VE is the last part of the word remove. I think you need to take the front cover off the controller to do it properly IIRC.

[Scott]

Haha! I am also a newbie, but I can see part of your problem in that picture. See that little strip of tape covering the display? You need to remove that to uncover the battery that saves all your settings. The VE is the last part of the word remove. I think you need to take the front cover off the controller to do it properly IIRC.

#5 - Hmm, thanks.  I don't see this mentioned anywhere in the manual.  I have to remove the center plastic piece that covers the buttons and LCD right?  Because the front metal cover doesn't provide access to that area.  Do you recall how to remove this plastic cover?  I don't want to break it.

[Volvo Farmer]

grab-pull. With fingers.

1. yes
2 and 3 will be solved by fixing 5 I think.

Someone else will have to answer 4

[Scott]

Thanks VF, it's now saving my date & time.

I still have the following questions for someone that is knowledgeable...

1 -When I remove power then reapply, it no longer knows my latitude and longitude - or at least it's not evident that it does by going through the wizard again.  Does it really still know my location, and how can I verify this?

2 -Even though I set my preferred temp display to F via the wizard, when I view temps, it show them to me in C.  Is the firmware lacking this ability?

3 -I have an MNDC panel.  I'm confused if I should ground battery "-" in my MNDC panel, in the controller, or not at all.  The way I read the manual, I should not ground battery to "-" anywhere if I want to use the controller's GPF feature.  Recommendations?

[boB]

Careful when removing the LCD cover as there are two wires connecting the speaker on that front piece of plastic to the circuit board.
The entire black plastic piece along with the clear plastic piece slides off of the plastic backing plate for the MNGP remote display
that is screwed to the metal top cover of the Classic.

That is also why it did not remember the time and date when you set it in the wizard.  Remember that in order for
the wizard values to "take", you must go all the way to the end of the wizard menu until it says "Data sent
and saved to Classic".  The time and date is actually remembered and saved in its screen as long as the "remove"
sticker is taken out that you are talking about behind the display there.  It will all be apparent when you remove
it.

If you would rather enter your battery voltages in the Charger menu instead of in the wizard, you can just forgo
entering things in the wizard.  To do this, hit STATUS and then MENU  (labelled "main menu")  buttons.

Then, right arrow over to "CHARGE", hit ENTER to get into the CHARGE menu, then ENTER again when VOLTS
is highlighted to get to the voltage change menu.  Hit the soft right key which should be  "QUICKSET"
and press UP arrow until your battery voltage is shown on the top right and hit ENTER.  This will
set the basic battery voltage and I think, set the Classic to SOLAR and then to ON.  If you see
a message on the main status coming up every few seconds that says "MODE IS OFF", then hit
MENU and right arrow over to MODE and, if SOLAR is the mode you want, press UP or DOWN to
change the mode to ON and then hit ENTER to make the Classic remember this.

Please feel free to ask if there are other questions on this or call our tech support (extension 2)
on our main number tomorrow, 360-403-7207.   We'll get you going.

This controller does a lot of stuff and is kind of confusing at first.

We will check the quick startup paper that comes with the Classic and see if we need to
make some of this more clear.  One thing I want to have done is to add a better sticker to
the front of the MNGP so it is clearer about that battery insulator "remove" sticker piece of
paper.  For instance, it doesn't say to be careful when pulling off the plastic cover to not
yank the speaker wires too hard.

On the CMD/DOS box going away... Yes, it is a batch file  (.bat) and if it didn't find the right file or
something it goes away too fast.  You could go to the /midnitesolar directory in CMD mode
and run the batch file to see the message, but this is normally not a problem and rarely
needs to be done.  Which version of windows are you running ??  Maybe it has something
to do with that ??  Either way, we want you to be able to upgrade your firmware and
you shouldn't see any CRC errors.  That is very rare as well.

You might want to get a hold of Ryan or Mario on that one at MidNite on the phone.

If you want to use the GFP feature of the Classic, you will want to make sure the little GFP
jumper on the front-right of the Classic is jumpering both terminals and do not connect
the '-'  and earth ground anywhere, except to let the Classic make the connection through
that little jumper.  Otherwise connect the '-' and ground in your main DC box that the batteries
connect into....  i.e.  the box with the main negative and ground bus in it.

Hopefully Ryan can add to all of this as soon as he gets back from the energy fair on
the east coast that he is at.

boB




boB

[boB]

Scott, looks like we replied at the same time.

Sorry about the degrees "F" thing.   That code is not implemented yet.

That should happen in a code update not too long from now, hopefully.

boB

[Scott]

Bob,

Thanks for the reply - yes I think we crossed wires, but in any case your reply was helpful.

I don't see anywhere on my "Classic Quick Start Guide" mention of removing the battery tag.  So, that would be a welcome addition.

I was able to download the firmware after reinstalling the MN software.  My OS is XP.  Prior to the second attempt, I removed the USB cable from laptop  and controller and reinstalled it, but I'd be surprised if that had any effect on the CRC error.

Should it be remembering my latitude and longitude?  Is there a way I can verify that it is / is not?

Regarding grounding, does the GFP only protect the controller?  I also have a vfx3648 in the mix.  If I disconnect the battery to ground connection in my MNDC panel, will the controller's GFP sense ground faults everywhere in the system (as long as it's +, -, and ground are connected to the MNDC)?

[boB]

Bob,

Thanks for the reply - yes I think we crossed wires, but in any case your reply was helpful.

I don't see anywhere on my "Classic Quick Start Guide" mention of removing the battery tag.  So, that would be a welcome addition.

I was able to download the firmware after reinstalling the MN software.  My OS is XP.  Prior to the second attempt, I removed the USB cable from laptop  and controller and reinstalled it, but I'd be surprised if that had any effect on the CRC error.

Should it be remembering my latitude and longitude?  Is there a way I can verify that it is / is not?

Regarding grounding, does the GFP only protect the controller?  I also have a vfx3648 in the mix.  If I disconnect the battery to ground connection in my MNDC panel, will the controller's GFP sense ground faults everywhere in the system (as long as it's +, -, and ground are connected to the MNDC)?

Thanks for the idea on the battery insulator tag.  We will add more to our quick start guide and/or that sticker I wanted put on the LCD window in the first place.

The Classic will remember the latitude and longitude BUT the problem is how it is displayed when you come back into that screen after first setting it.
How that software works, as I understand it, is that it works from the little map rather than the actual Lat/Long stored in the unit so it
doesn't come up exactly how you entered it originally.   However, say you were in the middle of the USA and had set your Lat/Long,
the map should come up kind of close on the map rather than where it originally comes up, which is in the north west USA where
MidNite Solar is located.  If it came up sort of in the area that you are in, then it definitely "took" the first time.
There isn't enough done with the Lat/Long at this point, so I wouldn't worry about it at the moment.

The necessity for use of Ground Fault Protection for PV systems is  debatable.  It is presently required in the US NEC code but is rarely useful.
It is seems to be a good indication of wiring errors however.  Arc Fault detection/protection is most likely much better for preventing
fires due to partial connections of the positive PV + wire to ground which is what actually trips the ground fault.

If this type of GFP  trips, there can be high voltages between the PV negative and earth ground and can then be  dangerous in other ways,
like  shock hazard.  Alternate ways of doing GFP besides just opening the ground -- PV + bond include shorting the whole array or disconnecting
both the PV negative AND positive closer to the array, rather than down stairs where the batteries and controllers and inverters are.  That method
is generally way too expensive to implement (we did this back at Trace Engineering back in the mid 1990s), so most companies go for the
inexpensive way out that detect wayward PV + current (around 1 Amps) and disconnect the ground to negative PV bond, turn off the controller,
(or grid tie inverter, etc), and maybe sound an alarm, as the Classic does.

All for the moment.

boB

[Scott]

Bob,

Thanks again for the detailed explanation.  

If I recall, the map did come up close to where I live in New England.  The map idea is helpful for those without internet access to look up their location, but I skip over that until I get to the point that I can just enter my numbers.

Ok on the GFP, I will give it some thought.

What are your thoughts on the controller and E.M.P.  If the controller is to be used as a back-up system, is it best just to not have it connected to anything until it's needed?   Perhaps just to ground?

Any idea how long the battery will last if the unit is not connected to power?

Any idea where I can get detailed battery charge information for a NAPA 8146(mfg. by Exide - equivilalent to Exide GC-5) 226a/20hr 6v battery.  It sure isn't easy to find on the Internet.