s/v Ninaa Ootakii - Batteries and classic settings

[Stone]

Good morning

So I've spent the past 14 months in the boatyard.

The wind turbines are disconnected.
The inverter is off.

Bank has no loads on it.

I went to do regular battery maintenance, and my battery bank

(8 L-16 lead acid floor sweeper batteries, series parallel, 24 volts)

took *4 gallons* of distilled water to top off.

Pretty sure that there was exposed plates.

All loads are disconnected, terminals are clean and tight.

I can hear the batteries bubbling a bit, they took half a quart of water today (total) a week after I topped them off... and my wizbang Jr is telling me that they're charging at 27.4 amps, but my state of charge is 100%.

No idea what to do now, can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

[Stone]

This is what I'm looking at.

[boB]

Stone, what is the AH capacity rating of that battery ?   Not 921AH or what the remaining AH says ?

According to what the WB Jr. in the Classic knows, it sees that your remaining AH are about the same as the capacity entered into the WB Jr. setup screen in order to display 100%  without flashing that SOC% figure.    If the Classic has just been turned on, the Classic WB Jr. software will show 100% but will flash instead of going solid SOC% representation.  Until an Absorb cycle is completed and the Classic goes to FLOAT, it will flash after being turned off and on again.  The main status screen will also not show 100% before the first Absorb-Float transition.

IF that is correct, then maybe the batteries just need to continue and the current will come down ?   BUT these are on your boat so I would be careful of the battery temperatures.  Measure each battery or even cell voltage while that current is going into the batteries....   Notice that one battery or cell might be much lower than the other(s) voltage drop.

See what you find.

[Stone]

Interstate L-16's

245 Min @ 75 a
935 Min @ 25 a
435 ah @ 20 Hr

is what it says on the battery label.

I have 2 strings of 4 in series,
and this strings are paralleled together.

This has been running for a couple of years, but always had a load on the inverter (fridge, freezer, etc)

I'm wondering if the entire system is confused about what it is, as there may have been some DC pulled out of the system that didn't go through the shunt.

... right now I'm hoping my batteries are okay.

I think I need someone to walk me through the settings... do we have a tutorial or something available?

[Vic]

Interstate L-16's

245 Min @ 75 a
935 Min @ 25 a
435 ah @ 20 Hr

is what it says on the battery label.

I have 2 strings of 4 in series,
and this strings are paralleled together.

This has been running for a couple of years, but always had a load on the inverter (fridge, freezer, etc)

I'm wondering if the entire system is confused about what it is, as there may have been some DC pulled out of the system that didn't go through the shunt.

... right now I'm hoping my batteries are okay.

I think I need someone to walk me through the settings... do we have a tutorial or something available?

Hi Stone,

Just a few comments:

Your battery bank needs to be EQed,  after you try to get the battery as fully-charged as you can by doing several charge cycles with your Classics,   generator/shore power,  etc.
Check the electrolyte level before EQ,  and top-up any cells that are a bit low.

Your battery had about 870 Ah when new,  at about 77 degrees F.
You must be using a Batt Temp Sensor,  with a fairly warm battery, for the Remaining Ah reading shown on the Wb,   or,  the total capacity used in the Wb Setup was set too high  ...

Please measure and record,  the terminal voltage of each battery when the charge (or discharge) current on the Wb is at its highest  --  near the end of Bulk.

During EQ,  keep a close eye on battery temps,  and be careful about sparks and open flames during Absorb,  and especially during EQ,  as Hydrogen gas is produced by the battery, in these stages.

Use the Absorb and EQ recommendations from the battery manufacturer for the above,  for now.

IMO,  the EQ voltage from the Classics should be Temp Compensated.

In the Classic's Temp menu,  there is a reading for the battery temperature,  that the BTS measures,  for your convenience.

More later,  please report the individual battery voltages for each battery,  during the high current charging/discharge,  and the Wb current,  and the batt temperature when the voltages were measured.

EDIT to add: Forgot to mention,  that FLA batteries can have a fairly significant self discharge,  which cannot be reported by battery monitoring devices,  like the WbJr,  because this discharge happens inside the batteries.  The higher the battery temperature,  the greater is this self-discharge rate ...<

More later,  Good Luck, Vic

[Stone]

"Your battery bank needs to be EQed"

Currently has no loads on it. set it for 2 hours, plenty of sun, uncertain if it completed the EQ, any harm doing it again?

"Check the electrolyte level before EQ and top-up any cells that are a bit low."

Used profill to top them all, visual verification, all are full and even.

"Your battery (bank?) had about 870 Ah when new, at about 77 degrees F."

Okay, how did we get that number?
435 ah @ 20 Hr @ 6v ... are we multiplying it by 2 'cause 2 strings?

"You must be using a Batt Temp Sensor,"

Yes.

"with a fairly warm battery, for the Remaining Ah reading shown on the Wb, or, the total capacity used in the Wb Setup was set too high  ..."

I'll check the WBJ.

"Please measure and record, the terminal voltage of each battery when the charge (or discharge) current on the Wb is at its highest  --  near the end of Bulk."

Bank is showing 100% SOC on the WBJ, so I would assume as soon as the sun goes down... guessing I need to disconnect all the batteries from each other for this?

"During EQ, keep a close eye on battery temps, and be careful about sparks and open flames during Absorb, and especially during EQ,  as Hydrogen gas is produced by the battery, in these stages."

Okay.

"Use the Absorb and EQ recommendations from the battery manufacturer for the above, for now."

Have been, although they seem a bit high to me

"IMO, the EQ voltage from the Classics should be Temp Compensated."

I thought it was, but I'll check.

Not currently at the boat, but in a different thread (original issue in January) I found this:

+---------+
All loads are on the proper side of the shunt.
Temperature compensation is on.

Bank is 8 L-16 6v in series parallel @ 24 volts.

Settings:
EQ: 32.3 volts
Absorb 29.6 volts
Float 27.0 volts
+---------+

"In the Classic's Temp menu, there is a reading for the battery temperature, that the BTS measures,  for your convenience."

"please report the individual battery voltages for each battery, during the high current charging/discharge, and the Wb current, and the batt temperature when the voltages were measured."

So I'm supposed to do this while it's live, charging, no loads, or?

"FLA batteries can have a fairly significant self discharge, which cannot be reported by battery monitoring devices"

... So the inverter kicked off like dead bank. WBJ showed 75% SOC.
Is this the WBJ being confused about how much current has come in and out (is this a math problem?)

... I saw a 480,000 number somewhere, and this system has been running non stop with a constant 12-15a inverter draw and occasional 56-83a draw...

[Stone]

Okay, I'm back at the boat
I have a sneaking suspicion that the WBJ is misconfigured.

[Stone]

My brain is beginning to melt.

[boB]

Stone,  questions...

What is the battery voltage during these pictures ?

What is the Classic current from the main status screen ?

And, you can measure each battery in circuit.  Just make sure that the load hasn't changed much between each measurement.

Do any of the batteries feel hot ?

boB

[Stone]

I haven't checked voltage at the batteries yet.

It's 11pm, no sun, no loads.

Amp hours available seems way high?
(thought it should be 870?)

[boB]

Press the SETUP soft key and change the Amp-Hours to what your batteries are.
900+ is quite a big battery !  Maybe something glitched ?

Also look at the MORE menu on the left side for the WB Jr.

Check battery voltages especially if they are charging or running a load. That will give a clue.  Maybe there is only one bad battery or something like that ?

Do the batteries still draw like, 24A during the day ?  Clues.

boB

[Vic]

Hi Stone,

Your battery is HOT --  about 100 F.

Based on voltage,  your battery SOC is fairly low.  The Wb needs a full charge in Absorb, to calibrate  to reality.

If you do not have a good  Hydrometer,  suggest the Hydrovolt:
https://www.solar-electric.com/midnite-solar-battery-hydrometer.html

No time now,  more later,  thanks for the screen shots,   Vic

[Stone]

BoB: Setup shows 870.

[Stone]

Left soft button on WBJ shows this:

[Vic]

Hi Stone,

Several more things:

Your Remaining battery Capacity is set in the Wb, as 1% per degree C change from the Reference temp of 25C.  One of the screen shots in this thread shows the BTS reads bat temp,  as about 37 C plus,  which is close to 100 F.  This means that the battery was HOT,  at that time.  This high batt temp increased remaining Capacity  from the 870 Ah that was set in the Wb ... (YES,  parallel strings multiply batt Capacity  --  435X2=870Ah).

I would suggest that you set the Wb to Reset Net Ah, when the Classic goes to Float,  here is how to do that from the WB Manual, pg4,

"The Net Amp-hours tally can be configured to reset every time the Classic goes
to float. To set this option, go to the "TWEAKS" menu and press "MORE" four
times. Select "WBRST" and press the UP or DOWN arrow keys to select "YES."
Press Enter to save. "NO" (or no reset) is the default".

More,  a bit later,  have been traveling,  FWIW,  Vic