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#91
New Product Ideas and Discussion / Re: A CLASSIC PRODUCT ADDITION...
Last post by Wizbandit - May 11, 2024, 11:18:21 AMSince Barry likes education I will try and explain MODBUS and CANBUS.
MODBUS uses a client-server topology. The client "asks" for data and the server, well, "serves up" the data. Let's say REQUEST & REPLY. The Classic uses 16 bit registers, think of a register as a box that holds data. 8 bits forms a "byte" so the Classic MODBUS register is 2 bytes long. Some Classic data won't "fit" in 2 bytes so we combine two registers and use 4 bytes but we need to read each register and combine them for our data. Classic lifetime KWh register comes to mind, it's 4 bytes or 32 bits. The cool thing about reading MODBUS we can select an address (MODBUS registers all have an address used to access them) and pick how many to read so for a 32 bit piece of data we can read 2 registers in one swoop, then process them into our data.
If still interested I'll explain CANBUS next...
MODBUS uses a client-server topology. The client "asks" for data and the server, well, "serves up" the data. Let's say REQUEST & REPLY. The Classic uses 16 bit registers, think of a register as a box that holds data. 8 bits forms a "byte" so the Classic MODBUS register is 2 bytes long. Some Classic data won't "fit" in 2 bytes so we combine two registers and use 4 bytes but we need to read each register and combine them for our data. Classic lifetime KWh register comes to mind, it's 4 bytes or 32 bits. The cool thing about reading MODBUS we can select an address (MODBUS registers all have an address used to access them) and pick how many to read so for a 32 bit piece of data we can read 2 registers in one swoop, then process them into our data.
If still interested I'll explain CANBUS next...
#92
New Product Ideas and Discussion / Re: A CLASSIC PRODUCT ADDITION...
Last post by boB - May 10, 2024, 09:37:42 PMThe Classic doesn't have a CAN peripheral so it wouldn't be able to do it.
It also doesn't have the CAN BUS driver chip.
It also doesn't have the CAN BUS driver chip.
#93
New Product Ideas and Discussion / Re: A CLASSIC PRODUCT ADDITION...
Last post by ClassicCrazy - May 10, 2024, 08:26:37 PMQuote from: Barry Fields on May 10, 2024, 07:14:54 PMAgain something I do not know:I don't think the Classic has the communications hardware needed to do canbus. It is different than what the Classic modbus does via IP or over the jacks to the MNGP.
Can the existing Classic 150 be "firmwared" to do Canbus instead of modbus?
Larry
#94
New Product Ideas and Discussion / Re: A CLASSIC PRODUCT ADDITION...
Last post by Barry Fields - May 10, 2024, 07:14:54 PMAgain something I do not know:
Can the existing Classic 150 be "firmwared" to do Canbus instead of modbus?
Can the existing Classic 150 be "firmwared" to do Canbus instead of modbus?
#95
New Product Ideas and Discussion / Re: load management
Last post by Barry Fields - May 10, 2024, 03:19:24 PMQuote from: Barry Fields on May 06, 2024, 07:26:43 PMWhere am I going here is as follows:
An opportunity load would be engaged based on the PWM% (last 10 min avg) indicating that excess PV power is available.
That load would stay engaged during a minimum run timer MRT (say 20min) .
When MRT =0 then if PWM%avg >0% and SOC >90% the load would continue for 5minutes and rechecked.
If the PWM%avg <0% or SOC< 90% the load would disengage.
A delayed restart timer DRST (5min) would prevent premature re-engagement.
The system would recheck PWM%avg and SOC every 5minutes for possible re-engagement.
This approach would work even without an actual PWM load.
My planned DUMP LOAD would be a rewired hot water heater run my primary inverter. shown below.
On disengagement, For lead acid batterys it is necessary to ensure that they be fully charged at least every 3days. There should be a flag for that being true. And a modification to the line above to this
If the PWM%avg <0% or SOC< 90% or flag=false the load would disengage.
#96
New Product Ideas and Discussion / Re: A CLASSIC PRODUCT ADDITION...
Last post by ClassicCrazy - May 10, 2024, 02:50:26 PMQuote from: Barry Fields on May 10, 2024, 02:29:03 PMAm I correct in saying that the Hawksbay also requires a higher PV input voltage? (re-config/add solar panels)Hawkes Bay does need 185v lowest possible pv input and 48v battery .
Can it perform any of the above load controls I have described above?
Does it also have the same restriction that WBjr uses one of the AUX ports?
IMHO not a clearly advantageous upgrade especially for a 12 or 24 or 36 volt user.
Could be an "capability expander" I have describe above could also be of use to a Hawksbay installation.
I believe the PWM is available on both of it's aux at same time , and don't believe the whizbang ties up either or the aux .
Larry
#97
New Product Ideas and Discussion / Re: A CLASSIC PRODUCT ADDITION...
Last post by Barry Fields - May 10, 2024, 02:29:03 PMAm I correct in saying that the Hawksbay also requires a higher PV input voltage? (re-config/add solar panels)
Can it perform any of the above load controls I have described above?
Does it also have the same restriction that WBjr uses one of the AUX ports?
IMHO not a clearly advantageous upgrade especially for a 12 or 24 or 36 volt user.
Could be an "capability expander" I have describe above could also be of use to a Hawksbay installation.
Can it perform any of the above load controls I have described above?
Does it also have the same restriction that WBjr uses one of the AUX ports?
IMHO not a clearly advantageous upgrade especially for a 12 or 24 or 36 volt user.
Could be an "capability expander" I have describe above could also be of use to a Hawksbay installation.
#98
New Product Ideas and Discussion / Re: A CLASSIC PRODUCT ADDITION...
Last post by Wizbandit - May 10, 2024, 01:47:33 PMHaving worked for Midnite close to over 12 years now I think I can safely say the Classic line is getting close to EOL (End Of Life), I still have CL150 serial #829 on the shelf. Let's face it, it uses older design parts (Transistors aka FETs) and the Classic runs REALLY, REALLY Hot and it does not take much abuse to short out the FETs. The case is part of the heat-sink for the FETs. In my power room with no A/C I have 4 Classic 200's and it gets over 95 degrees in the summer, I know better than to put my hand on one.
Rumor time, there may be a Classic 2.0 in the design phase right now, it would make better sense to think about this stuff being done to it before the final design. (The project has a code name but I can't remember it since the engineer working on it also designed the KID I just call it "The BIG KID", unofficially of course)
Right now the Hawkes Bay 90 is the best replacement for a Classic, it uses newer technology like Silicon Carbide transistors which are more powerful and run way, way cooler. The HB90 also is a HV controller which means no more combiner box, most times all PV modules can run in one string or maybe two and more power from less losses. It also uses a better MNGP called the MNGP2 and uses CANBUS for all the communication needs. I know it costs more than a Classic but it is bigger, better and cooler. The only thing is it is 48V only. I heard rumors of maybe a 24V version some day but I'm not sure, it would need to drop down in current to keep the same terminals.
The cost is around $1250 retail:
https://www.currentconnected.com/product/midnite-solar-mnhawkes-bay-90/
Rumor time, there may be a Classic 2.0 in the design phase right now, it would make better sense to think about this stuff being done to it before the final design. (The project has a code name but I can't remember it since the engineer working on it also designed the KID I just call it "The BIG KID", unofficially of course)
Right now the Hawkes Bay 90 is the best replacement for a Classic, it uses newer technology like Silicon Carbide transistors which are more powerful and run way, way cooler. The HB90 also is a HV controller which means no more combiner box, most times all PV modules can run in one string or maybe two and more power from less losses. It also uses a better MNGP called the MNGP2 and uses CANBUS for all the communication needs. I know it costs more than a Classic but it is bigger, better and cooler. The only thing is it is 48V only. I heard rumors of maybe a 24V version some day but I'm not sure, it would need to drop down in current to keep the same terminals.
The cost is around $1250 retail:
https://www.currentconnected.com/product/midnite-solar-mnhawkes-bay-90/
#99
New Product Ideas and Discussion / A CLASSIC PRODUCT ADDITION ???
Last post by Barry Fields - May 09, 2024, 10:05:29 PMA CLASSIC PRODUCT ADDITION?
My intent here is not to step on any toes, but to be honest, forthright and constructive.
Background
My belief is that many of your Classic users may have similar problems that I have.
My system is 3200watts of PV going to a Renogy Rover 60 (MNMPPT60DIY equivalent ? ). I have 4ea 215AH 48v FLA battery banks. My "load management" is accomplished thru multiple op amps, comparators, 555 timers and relays. I have to constantly readjust things because temperature compensated set points and other variables are unavailable. I would love to do end amps(WBjr) and PWM.
I could upgrade to a Classic 150 for approx $900 self installed. I sure it would improve my reliability and charge current capacity. I presently do not totally use the PV and charge capacity of the Renogy. I have little room or location for additional paneling (also an additional expense).
One Classic would not allow me to do both end amps and PWM. The present solution would be to purchase a second Classic to accomplish this. The additional charge current would be un-used as I have no wind or hydro (another expense).
I would also like to independently monitor each of the battery banks for SOC and float current trends (battery health). I would also like to do float current adjustment of absorb time (enough but not too much).
I realize the some Classic users are employing rasberry-pi and other mini computers to accomplish what the Classic will not. This is all well and good but beyond the scope of many user's abilities.
The real world suggests that a redesign of the Classic is less than desirable. It is not broke, it just has limitations.
I would suggest a new Midnite product to attach to the modbus (unique address). It would include the following:
1) An upgraded ADC to monitor and combine up to 4 independent bank shunts with better resolution than WBjr. The increased resolution would assist in LIPO4 charging, float current discrimination and tighter setpoint and width settings. Hopefully real time current data could be supplied over modbus and free up the Classic's aux2 port.
2) A "small" mcu to process ABSORB and FlOAT commands and LOAD engage/disengage commands for # additional AUX ports. I say small because these commands take place over minutes not milliseconds. It could be called upon to generate PWM signals.
3) Minimally it would have modbus connect-ability and USB for firmware upgrades.
Open question would be where to get power for the unit.
I am sure that peeps might want to suggest other load management parameters than I have suggested. Those should be customizable thru MNGP. Having reviewed the Classics registry I believe that all necessary parameters are available and can be written too.
I hope this post has not endangered my most recent promotion to Full Member.
Open for input
Barry
My intent here is not to step on any toes, but to be honest, forthright and constructive.
Background
My belief is that many of your Classic users may have similar problems that I have.
My system is 3200watts of PV going to a Renogy Rover 60 (MNMPPT60DIY equivalent ? ). I have 4ea 215AH 48v FLA battery banks. My "load management" is accomplished thru multiple op amps, comparators, 555 timers and relays. I have to constantly readjust things because temperature compensated set points and other variables are unavailable. I would love to do end amps(WBjr) and PWM.
I could upgrade to a Classic 150 for approx $900 self installed. I sure it would improve my reliability and charge current capacity. I presently do not totally use the PV and charge capacity of the Renogy. I have little room or location for additional paneling (also an additional expense).
One Classic would not allow me to do both end amps and PWM. The present solution would be to purchase a second Classic to accomplish this. The additional charge current would be un-used as I have no wind or hydro (another expense).
I would also like to independently monitor each of the battery banks for SOC and float current trends (battery health). I would also like to do float current adjustment of absorb time (enough but not too much).
I realize the some Classic users are employing rasberry-pi and other mini computers to accomplish what the Classic will not. This is all well and good but beyond the scope of many user's abilities.
The real world suggests that a redesign of the Classic is less than desirable. It is not broke, it just has limitations.
I would suggest a new Midnite product to attach to the modbus (unique address). It would include the following:
1) An upgraded ADC to monitor and combine up to 4 independent bank shunts with better resolution than WBjr. The increased resolution would assist in LIPO4 charging, float current discrimination and tighter setpoint and width settings. Hopefully real time current data could be supplied over modbus and free up the Classic's aux2 port.
2) A "small" mcu to process ABSORB and FlOAT commands and LOAD engage/disengage commands for # additional AUX ports. I say small because these commands take place over minutes not milliseconds. It could be called upon to generate PWM signals.
3) Minimally it would have modbus connect-ability and USB for firmware upgrades.
Open question would be where to get power for the unit.
I am sure that peeps might want to suggest other load management parameters than I have suggested. Those should be customizable thru MNGP. Having reviewed the Classics registry I believe that all necessary parameters are available and can be written too.
I hope this post has not endangered my most recent promotion to Full Member.
Open for input
Barry
#100
New Product Ideas and Discussion / Re: Whiz Bang Senior
Last post by boB - May 09, 2024, 04:27:26 PMQuote from: Barry Fields on May 08, 2024, 03:33:23 PMWhen dealing with 2 classics in "follow me" is a firmware update reflected through to the second classic over the modbus or is a second usb connection required for an additional update for the second classic?
All Classics are independent
Must update each one individually