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#1
MidNite Battery Capacity Meter / Re: LiFePo4 monitoring
Last post by mahendra - Today at 08:48:09 AM
So
Quote from: Offgridiot on February 22, 2024, 08:47:08 PM
Quote from: mahendra on February 21, 2024, 07:22:10 PMLots of questions here guys.
But yes to all I think .
To be accurate my classic 150 is just about 11years , my classic 200 is a year younger,
And my calb lifepo4 now with a jk BMS is just over six years and going strong thanks to the whiz bang and classic.
I did monitoring some time back and would check in now and again both on my my midnite and local status app.
They are doing a good job so no need to monitor all the time.There is that occasional shut down and restart like yearly or when values looks weird .
I have follow me set up and end amps(really great for lithium).

From experience also there need to be som frequent tweaking of the bulk/ absorb and float voltages to ensure your lithium are getting a good charge and does not overcharge or discharge during float stage .
But that's what pack BMs like the jk BMS are for.
As I pointed out some years ago I enquired from this forum and NAZ on charge profiles for lithium I took a calculated gamble(lots of research and an engineering background,no expert though)and it paid off.
I do not have the new firmware on my classic . I don't bother to try to load it either because Both my classics are second to first generation from what I know . I think I was mention that those would not be capable of accommodating the new firmware .

I might be going as a poster boy again here for shouting out the Classics but it did a good job even when there was no firmware update or readily available BMS for lithium.

I did bottom balance with no BMS during those times bought the whiz bang to help.
I mentioned before that the only thing missing from the whiz bang is individual cell monitoring but I guess that's no longer needed with all the changes to lithium in solar ,
Because of this I no longer build lithium packs for solar only car audio.

Hope this helps.
 If you need my setting I will check this tommorrow and let you know it's been so long that I set those and somewhat forgot sorry.


I'm interested to know more about the end amps and how you set yours up. I see a paragraph in the manual about it  but like most portions of the manual, it doesn't have much LiFePo4 specific info. Any info about the settings you settled on that you're willing to share is greatly appreciated, especially as related to the float cycle. I'm in no rush, as I'm probably a couple months away from flashing up the first classic. I've got so much work to do before then.
My batteries are from Power Queen, and the built in BMSs should protect the units from overcharge but I suppose that could lead to some nuisance shutdown scenarios.
That 'poster boy' attitude is exactly what I need from you. Don't apologize for it! ;)

So your end amps can be calculated from your battery specifications most lifepo4 cells I came across is around .05c of the capacity ( in my case that works out to 9 amps from 180ah capacity 16s ).Anything above and cells can hit over voltage and pack over charge leading to battery failure or worst.

For float voltage some battery manufacturers recommend bulk equals float but that's not very practical as that can cause an over charge .Some guys here and over at NAZ forum and DIYSolar forum did extensive testing if I am correct float volts from their test works out to 3.375vdc per cell(works out to around 54vdc to 54.4 Vdc depending on brand).This is the part I think needs a bit of tweaking as I have experienced it with several batteries some of them are ;my calb,Rept,rept,eg4,fortress,lishen and some others there are so many now.

Most reputable manufacturers would have these setting in ranges for premade batteries like the eg4 and eg4 for expample if I recall correctly are 54vdc +/- 0.02 .So my take on this the float part is the most troublesome because if you don get this one exactly the battery can slowing discharge or slowing over charge.
Bms doesn't help much here.If the battery is slowing overcharging then the bms will go into alarm with out doing a good balance.The only other thing that would safe guard you is you load and the night(no charge )if your grid connected or have wind that may not be so.Sounds scary but very manageable.

Another experience is most bms have very little balancing power most I think is around 650ma if you are charging to almost full capacity which I noticed most premade (eg4/fortress etc) are doing based on their spec sheets and manuals .you will need more than 650ma balancing power . I don't have data to support but I have observed that 1a of a decent balancing  power for an average 100ah battery regardless of voltage this is why I switched to the JK bms from the 123bms the come in up to 4amps of balancing power .If you can increase that it's better but think there is also a cut off point as to how much balancing amps you can apply to your battery with causing an imbalance from too high balancing amps.

The other observation is that the added balancing amps come in nicely as the battery ages. Since I added the jK bms I notice my battery pack is always nicely balanced regardless of the load or charge I have 4amp balancing on them.

Additionally , I use the rebulk feature at a setting of 50vdc which works out to 3.125vpc.This also helps with slow dishcharge.
This is just a figure I am comfortable with however.

To close,I am yet to see how the premade batteries stand up to time particularly with handling imbalance from aging.I almost lost my pack because it a poor bms(123 smart bms) and I had no intention to continue with out a good one.

Look up on bms types as well active and passive .Active and smart is better.

Hope this answer you questions
#2
MidNite Battery Capacity Meter / Re: LiFePo4 monitoring
Last post by Offgridiot - February 22, 2024, 08:47:08 PM
Quote from: mahendra on February 21, 2024, 07:22:10 PMLots of questions here guys.
But yes to all I think .
To be accurate my classic 150 is just about 11years , my classic 200 is a year younger,
And my calb lifepo4 now with a jk BMS is just over six years and going strong thanks to the whiz bang and classic.
I did monitoring some time back and would check in now and again both on my my midnite and local status app.
They are doing a good job so no need to monitor all the time.There is that occasional shut down and restart like yearly or when values looks weird .
I have follow me set up and end amps(really great for lithium).

From experience also there need to be som frequent tweaking of the bulk/ absorb and float voltages to ensure your lithium are getting a good charge and does not overcharge or discharge during float stage .
But that's what pack BMs like the jk BMS are for.
As I pointed out some years ago I enquired from this forum and NAZ on charge profiles for lithium I took a calculated gamble(lots of research and an engineering background,no expert though)and it paid off.
I do not have the new firmware on my classic . I don't bother to try to load it either because Both my classics are second to first generation from what I know . I think I was mention that those would not be capable of accommodating the new firmware .

I might be going as a poster boy again here for shouting out the Classics but it did a good job even when there was no firmware update or readily available BMS for lithium.

I did bottom balance with no BMS during those times bought the whiz bang to help.
I mentioned before that the only thing missing from the whiz bang is individual cell monitoring but I guess that's no longer needed with all the changes to lithium in solar ,
Because of this I no longer build lithium packs for solar only car audio.

Hope this helps.
 If you need my setting I will check this tommorrow and let you know it's been so long that I set those and somewhat forgot sorry.


I'm interested to know more about the end amps and how you set yours up. I see a paragraph in the manual about it  but like most portions of the manual, it doesn't have much LiFePo4 specific info. Any info about the settings you settled on that you're willing to share is greatly appreciated, especially as related to the float cycle. I'm in no rush, as I'm probably a couple months away from flashing up the first classic. I've got so much work to do before then.
My batteries are from Power Queen, and the built in BMSs should protect the units from overcharge but I suppose that could lead to some nuisance shutdown scenarios.
That 'poster boy' attitude is exactly what I need from you. Don't apologize for it! ;)
#3
General FAQ'S / Re: RV 24v Charging
Last post by ClassicCrazy - February 22, 2024, 06:56:39 PM
If you want to go 24v I would get a 24v battery instead of two 12v .
Get the kind that have monitoring available either by bms app, pc software, or display on the front.
Check into SOK, Signature Solar, Jakiper and compare . Lithium prices are pretty low now so good time to shop for them.
Do you already have the Midnite Kid ? That is the 30 amp . If you don't have it I would check into Midnite DIY line or a Classic since that gives you more room to grow your system and better remote monitoring than the Kid has.
Larry
#4
MidNite Battery Capacity Meter / Re: LiFePo4 monitoring
Last post by Offgridiot - February 22, 2024, 05:47:09 PM
Quote from: ClassicCrazy on February 21, 2024, 06:01:02 PM
Quote from: Offgridiot on February 21, 2024, 03:50:54 PM
Quote from: mahendra on February 21, 2024, 12:08:22 PMWhiz Bang does a great job on lithium I have been using it for 5 years now on lithium, Additionally, it does a great job in turning off charge and discharge. Shut my inverter down a couple of times based on my low soc setting > i have it on two classics one on first generation still kicking. They are like 7 to 10 years or more years old and can't remember.
I may have to get new fans on one notice it is sounding weird lately.

Hey Mahendra
5 years. Awesome! Do you have them set up with the 'Follow Me' software? And do you also use the 'Local Application' for monitoring? I'm curious about the ability of the data logging to separate the specific data from each controller. My understanding (from watching YouTube videos) is that Follow Me gathers info from both, and presents the combined data (the total of the amperage from both controllers) but if I want to see the data separated, can I?
Replacing fans should be easy enough? Seems that user-friendly component swapping was one of the selling points that convinced me to go with Midnite.
I will clarify a few things.  ( Do you have a Classic ?)
The Classic has a mode that sends data out to MyMidnite pretty much automatically . So the data goes to Midnite server and the only initial thing you need to do is set it up on the MyMidnite site which isn't too hard. From there you can see all your historical data and set up the graph to select exactly which data you want to see.
You only need to plug in a Cat5 cable in from your router to the Classics internet port.
This is the same connection needed by the other software.
One of them is the Local Status app which is from Midnite. It works real time and will also allow you to make changes to settings. No other software lets you write the changes as easily.
But that software is a bit dated and while it works okay it does have a few bugs here and there.
The platform that Local Status app was created on is dated so there is no more development of this app going on.
There is another monitoring program developed by Graham called Classic Monitoring app which is the best for displaying data and it will data log also if you leave your android device on. And as just mentioned it runs on Android phone or tablet and is a free opensource software available on the Playstore . This app will combine some data from different Classics if you want it to .
One thing to keep in mind is that the Classics internet port only lets one connection at a time - so you can't have the Local Status app and the Classic Monitoring app connect at the same time. But this doesn't affect the Mymidnite data which works a different way and will always run.
The Follow Me mode is not software , it is a setting on the Classics so that when you connect two or more of them together by cables , the lead Classic will tell the follower Classics when to go to Float .
If you read about other companies products they also have all kinds of setup frustrations , some which are a lot worse than what you will ever encounter with the Classic. I have had my Classics for many years and the firmware updates have fixed any problems and actually added new features. Bob has just been developing one specifically with features for Lithium batteries which the Classic was not originally designed for.
So you didn't waste your $$ .
Larry

Thank you once again. Between the help you guys have graciously offered, and the YouTube videos, and re-reading parts of the manual that previously made my head spin, I'm slowly getting my head back in the game.
Last year I bought 3 Classic 150s, and hardware, and panels and batteries (LiFePo4 ready-made units) for a significant upgrade on my off grid system. In looking forward (with varying degrees of confidence) to the installation, I've been researching (aka web browsing) and have spotted some newer fancy systems that seem to display all the info I would ever want (total solar input, house loads, battery SOC, etc), on these shiny, colourful graphics screens. I guess I'm like a crow....oooh! I want the shiny thing!  It'll probably do my aging brain some good to have to add the KWh figures from 4 SCCs together. I just thought there might be a lazy man's solution the (non) problem.

I'm sure I will be downloading the 'local app' or, more likely, Graham's Classic Monitoring app, and playing with it but don't have much interest in web connectivity so now realize I don't need to concern myself with the MyMidnite stuff.

Your clarifications are greatly appreciated! I promise not to panic-sell my Classics just yet. :)
#5
Barcelona / Re: Barcelona BETA Testing in ...
Last post by Weldman - February 22, 2024, 08:53:20 AM
Forgive me if I haven't returned the other Rosie yet, I got about 60 eggs on incubation. Not a quick switch out that's easy to do before the eggs start cooling.
#6
Lead Acid (Sealed and flooded) / Where is Administration midnit...
Last post by Victorwfm - February 22, 2024, 12:21:30 AM
Can I contact admin??
It is about advertisement on your website.
Thank.
#7
General FAQ'S / Re: RV 24v Charging
Last post by bloke - February 21, 2024, 11:23:33 PM
Thanks Larry
Yes battery amp/hours is what I mean.
I'm thinking of trying 2x12volt Lithium 150amp/hr each with 2 panels 415 watts each.
Batteries in series for 24 volt and the 2 panels in series. Midnight solar is the 30 amp version.
Am I heading in the right direction??
Cheers
Ian
#8
MidNite Battery Capacity Meter / Re: LiFePo4 monitoring
Last post by mahendra - February 21, 2024, 07:22:10 PM
Lots of questions here guys.
But yes to all I think .
To be accurate my classic 150 is just about 11years , my classic 200 is a year younger,
And my calb lifepo4 now with a jk BMS is just over six years and going strong thanks to the whiz bang and classic.
I did monitoring some time back and would check in now and again both on my my midnite and local status app.
They are doing a good job so no need to monitor all the time.There is that occasional shut down and restart like yearly or when values looks weird .
I have follow me set up and end amps(really great for lithium).

From experience also there need to be som frequent tweaking of the bulk/ absorb and float voltages to ensure your lithium are getting a good charge and does not overcharge or discharge during float stage .
But that's what pack BMs like the jk BMS are for.
As I pointed out some years ago I enquired from this forum and NAZ on charge profiles for lithium I took a calculated gamble(lots of research and an engineering background,no expert though)and it paid off.
I do not have the new firmware on my classic . I don't bother to try to load it either because Both my classics are second to first generation from what I know . I think I was mention that those would not be capable of accommodating the new firmware .

I might be going as a poster boy again here for shouting out the Classics but it did a good job even when there was no firmware update or readily available BMS for lithium.

I did bottom balance with no BMS during those times bought the whiz bang to help.
I mentioned before that the only thing missing from the whiz bang is individual cell monitoring but I guess that's no longer needed with all the changes to lithium in solar ,
Because of this I no longer build lithium packs for solar only car audio.

Hope this helps.
 If you need my setting I will check this tommorrow and let you know it's been so long that I set those and somewhat forgot sorry.
#9
General FAQ'S / Re: RV 24v Charging
Last post by ClassicCrazy - February 21, 2024, 06:54:03 PM
Quote from: bloke on February 21, 2024, 07:01:52 AMThanks for that information. The sizing tool is a great help. I'm just a bit unsure how many amp/hrs I could have on board as that is not input into the sizing tool.
Cheers
Amp hours of batteries ?
If you are talking about battery capacity you can have as many as you want, though best to have enough solar to be able to charge up what you use  the next day.
Larry
#10
General Discussion / Re: s/v Ninaa Ootakii - Winter...
Last post by boB - February 21, 2024, 06:19:43 PM

Hey Stone !  Great to see you are still going strong.  Now I am the one in the water.  Just coming back to Fort Lauderdale after a 10 day cruise through the Caribbean...

As for the relay, you can use Aux 1 and set it for Night Light (or Nite Lite ?) and it will flip the relay just as well as a light.  I think there is an active LOW version of that in the aux 1 menu that will put out voltage during the day and turn it off during the night.

That uses up both Aux outputs though including the Whizbang Junior hooked up to Aux 2.

Can't remember if you have two Classics on your boat ?

Say hi to the wife.

boB