Report Card for Beta Units...??

[Mario]

Mario,

I tried that and same result...nothing.

Cheers...
Damani

So we need to RMA that unit because it is bricked.
Ryan how do we do that?

Mario

[TomW]

To answer the question.... the kid like any other charger is meant to charge a battery from a source like Solar, Wind or Hydro. the kid does have current limit protection, but charging from a higher battery voltage to a lower battery voltage it WILL NOT BE UNDER WARRANTY.

Mario

Hmm, even the Super Lifetime Beta Warranty?

Kidding. I get that it is a Bad Thing (TM).

Tom

[Westbranch]

Yup, and it will make Morning Star HAPPY...

[Halfcrazy]

Actually I suspect if it is in slow track mode and current limit is set it would work just fine. Ok now you got me interested I will try this next spare pair of minutes I have. I am still thinking of taking my 120vac rectified genset and stepping it down to by 50% and trying that  Got to find the limit somewhere  Plus I still do don't know what the Kid FETs smell like when they burn. And its fun to make Mario nervous 

[TomW]

Actually I suspect if it is in slow track mode and current limit is set it would work just fine. Ok now you got me interested I will try this next spare pair of minutes I have. I am still thinking of taking my 120vac rectified genset and stepping it down to by 50% and trying that  Got to find the limit somewhere  Plus I still do don't know what the Kid FETs smell like when they burn. And its fun to make Mario nervous 

Be sure to take video from multiple angles.. Fire Emitting Transistors are fun to watch!

[Bunkie314]

I have to admit to different uses of the load side. I connected the old Go Power PWM charger I had that auto senses battery voltage and connected the input of it to the kid load output. Then took the output of the PWM to two car batteries. It is actually working very well an gave me load output voltage and amp info from the load side of the kid. Used the day light features to turn it on and off at float and LB cutoff at 13.1 Volts. Since I am using it for my car hauler I wanted a way to keep the race car battery charged.  Its working great. I suppose the approach would solve the higher voltage bank issue as long as the input of the other charger accepted kid output voltage  I'm 12 volts on both battery sets. Well, that is if you have one laying around. I have seen up to 3 amps going to the car batteries through the PWM charger and the kid just cruising along holding float charge.

[dgd]

I have to admit to different uses of the load side. I connected the old Go Power PWM charger I had that auto senses battery voltage and connected the input of it to the kid load output. Then took the output of the PWM to two car batteries. It is actually working very well an gave me load output voltage and amp info from the load side of the kid. Used the day light features to turn it on and off at float and LB cutoff at 13.1 Volts. Since I am using it for my car hauler I wanted a way to keep the race car battery charged.  Its working great. I suppose the approach would solve the higher voltage bank issue as long as the input of the other charger accepted kid output voltage  I'm 12 volts on both battery sets. Well, that is if you have one laying around. I have seen up to 3 amps going to the car batteries through the PWM charger and the kid just cruising along holding float charge.

The only problem I see with this approach is that the PWM controller will output the correct voltage BUT it wastes power.  If the main bank is 24v and the load battery is 12v then the current out at 12v is the same as the current in at 24v. It will likely just burn it off as heat.
I have tried a low cost DC to DC converter (buck converter) from ebay/china and although only rated for 2 amps output, it is about 93% efficient. Ideal for small charge for 12v battery on KID's load terminals. I wll be trying a 10amp 24v to 12v converter later and a small constant current charger for small gel batteries.
We do need a config setting for the KID to specify a load output current MAX.
dgd

[ClassicCrazy]

The reason I was asking about using the Kid as something of a step down converter is I was thinking of getting one of these to run 12v loads from 24v battery
http://sepbatteries.com/samlex-24vdc-12vdc-converter-sdc-23
or the 30 amp model that costs a bit more.
Samlex makes good stuff and also it is 13.8 v out.

I believe I tried using the Morningstar Sunsaver MPPT to charge 12v from 24v but think I gave it up because it made too much noise on the ham radio's. Guess  I should try it again to confirm - it has been awhile.

There is always the question on how to best run 12v loads - use quality 12v switching power supply , use a DC/DC converter, or have the separate solar system charge 12v battery which is what I do now. The inverter to power supply is probably the least efficient, then it might be a toss up in efficiency between the DC to DC converter and a Kid powered solar system. And then there is the mentioned RF noise issues. I haven't really tested that out yet with the Kid - will have to shut off all the other equipment and tune around on the HF one of these days to find out. My guess is that if the Kid is quiet , that means the Morningstar Tristar MPPT controller is going out of service  because it does make noise - it actually isn't needed right now but was aquired before the Classic was on the market and it has always worked very well.

Larry 

[Vic]

...

Vic;

I fixed your link.

Tom

Tom  !!   Thank you very much,   do not know what link wound up in that post ...  99% of the time when posting a link,  return to the site immediately and test the link.  That time was called away,  and forgot to do the test.  Thanks.

And Robin,  thank you for the detail on some Kid buttons being made longer,  good idea.

Also the label on the Kid's I/O terminals advising against connecting PV and battery negative leads together outside of the Kid is another very good idea.   Sill,  might not hurt to also mention it in the manual,  where the drawing/photo of the terminals is located (in case anyone reads the manual!).

Looks like you are making great progress,  and know that the Kid will be very well-received.   Thanks all,    Vic

[Highflyer]

The regular KID is only a 20 amp controller in 40C ambient. That just sounded wimpy, so I asked Mike to rig up a small fan into the back and make the exit holes over the inductor. This turned out to work very well. I can't remember exactly now, but the KID did 30 or 35 amps at 40C with that little fan like what is inside the Classic.
How much would it do at normal ambients? Probably 40 amps. By the way, 20AWG wire is rated at 40C in industrial applications, so we may have a fan option in the future that will give you an additional 10 amps or so.
Cool huh?

Robin,
Didn't I read the Beta KIDs use 10AWG as the max size wire?  And if so, isn't its rating 30 Amps max?  I would love to get 40 amps out of the Kid, but I do not want to burn anything up, I like it too much.  Please let me know if I miss read anything. 

[dgd]

Here is a good one to comment on......We have a potential customer that wants to run these in a hot climate. The regular KID is only a 20 amp controller in 40C ambient. That just sounded wimpy, so I asked Mike to rig up a small fan into the back and make the exit holes over the inductor. This turned out to work very well. I can't remember exactly now, but the KID did 30 or 35 amps at 40C with that little fan like what is inside the Classic.
How much would it do at normal ambients? Probably 40 amps. By the way, 20AWG wire is rated at 40C in industrial applications, so we may have a fan option in the future that will give you an additional 10 amps or so.
Cool huh?

Just looking at this again...  Would it really take much modification?
If the KID is attached to the wall mounting plastic frame then its possible to not have the back cover on the KID. It would not be too difficult to have a hole for a fan in that mounting bracket and force air into the KID innards with some exit holes at bottom of frame.
Better still a somewhat taller mounting frame, maybe an aluminum casting with a top extension for a
small fan.

So what is holding the MAX output to battery at 30A? Is it just the fuse rating or is there a limit imposed by the firmware?

dgd

[dgd]

Mario,
This morning I observed the KID for a while as I relocating some cables.
Its a bright sunny day with some broken clouds.

PV Classic is about 1800watts from 2.1Kw PV array and when clouds go past drops to 500 to 700 watts for 2 to 20 seconds then back up to over 1800 again.

The KID has 700W array in clear sun but I'm never seeing it reporting more than 350 watts output
When cloud moves over the KID detects the reducing current and goes from BULKMPPT to RESTING and array voltage rises from about 85v to 105v (90v mpv)
The resting always lasts at least 3 to 6 minutes before relay clicks and it rushes back up to over 300 watts. Next clouds same again.
I appears the KID is more in RESTING state then in BULKMPPT
I'm not 100% positive this is actually related to cloud movement as its a very regular almost cyclic occurance. Almost as if there is a timer count behind it.
I also see the top green LED is always illuminated.

Although the Classic soon gets the bank into Absorb the KID does the same in ABSORB, it cycles between ABSORB and RESTING states.

The KID seems to have a long RESTING delay before resuming MPPT even though the clouds moved away and the PVs are in clear sunlight. This delay is way too long.

Any thoughts on this?

dgd

[dapdan]

Dgd,

Which fw do you have installed in the kid. I have never noticed that type of behavior before. I will monitor it more closely to see if I can observe any similar behavior.

Cheers...
Damani

[dgd]

Its 1712
however, I think I may have sort  of found a reason for this
I just noticed the KID in FLOAT making 272Watts and when I touched it it was real hot
Looking at temps 42 for cpu and 41 for pcb and according to my temp probe the heat sink fins were at 52 degrees. Now thats hot to the touch.
Ambient temp earlier when I noticed the MPPT to RESTING cycling was over 30, now 27.
So I am wondering now if the KID was too hot and it was going into RESTING to cool down then restarting BULKMPPT hence what appeared to be cycling on a regular basis.
I also remember this morning the Classic 150 fan was running constantly.

We should have another hot day tomorrow so I will be watching the KID and if same happens then I will get a boxer fan rigged up to push air through it (with KID back off!)
if this is the reason then I will get the plastic support mounting drlled out for air flow.

dgd

[dapdan]

Dgd,

Are you refering to degree C? How is it your power room is so warm at 30C. Is it electronics plus external ambient. I am in the Caribbean and this time of the year it is usually cooler with ambient temps avg around 28C with real feel less as the wind is usually above 15mph.

Cheers...
Damani