3 identical controllers, 2 different states

Started by ForeverHomestead, March 09, 2023, 02:12:36 PM

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ForeverHomestead

I have 3 Classic 150 CC.  I had all of them set to follow me mode so they all take the lead of the main CC.  One of them seems to not be following(An issue for another day)  The one controller (CC3) is showing it is in Absorb (This is where I also thought it should be)  I checked a bunch of things and they are all programed the same.  On a hunch I turned off the Follow me so they all act on their own.  CC2 went to Absorb but the CC1 (was set as the main) stays in bulk.  Battery voltage shows the same on all 3 CC.  Why would one be in Bulk still with batteries SOC and voltage showing full and that it should be moving into the absorb but does not.  Any ideas?

I will mention that my battery bank is a 48 volt bank, but over the winter I had a battery go bad and removed it (2 Volt Rolls Battery) and made voltage adjustments on all CC to reflect that currently the bank is only 46 volts.  The replacement battery is still 10 weeks out.

ClassicCrazy

Do you have ending amps set up ?
Have you checked the batteries with multimeter and then adjusted Classic for any voltage drop on the cables ? 
Also do you have them set up to use the master Classic temperature ?
This is how I have my Classics set up for follow me
https://www.midniteftp.com/support/kb/faq.php?id=112
Larry 
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

boB


You may want to look at the battery charging "target" voltage of each CC to make sure they are all the same or within a tenth or two of a volt.  This is the Absorb set-point voltage but with battery temperature taken into account.

To view this go to the MNGP charge menu, T-COMP and the VIEW which is by pressing the upper-right soft key.   The target voltage should be the same if you are sharing the temperature compensation sensor on one Classic with the rest of the Follow-Me.

Of course, if one of the Classics are not following, then that might be the trouble ?
There is an LED inside the Classic, one of those 3 LEDs, the middle one I think, that can
be made to blink short time if it is reading the Follow-Me information and will blink for a longer time, like 1 second, if it misses the packet through the F-Me cable.

BTW, it is OK for that packet to be missed once in a while but the LED should blink short, most of the time.

boB


K7IQ 🌛  He/She/Me

ForeverHomestead

Thanks for the info.  I will check the temp comp setting.  I know the targets are the same but not sure about the temps.  The blue LED does blink fast so I am sure it is getting the info

ForeverHomestead

So I put the 3 classics back into follow me mode.  Temp comp is correct on cc 1 and cc 2. they both show the voltage at 59.7  cc3 shows at 58. 

I looked at battery temps.  CC 1 and 2 show the same battery temp.  cc3 says not available.  battery is set to get temp from master.  even though the blue light shows flash flashing like it is following, it is not getting the battery temp info.  also does not follow the master for stage of charge.

Wizbandit

There are 2 different blue LED flashes. a 1 second(slow) and a 1/10 second(fast).  Slow means bad or no data.  Go to a Classic, plug a cable between the middle jack and bottom jack of the same Classic.  Se what flash you get, slow means bad cable, bad Classic, or that Classic is not setup correctly.  You can test all your cables and Classics this way.

boB


Also make sure that CC3 is not set for master temperature sensor.

K7IQ 🌛  He/She/Me

ralph day

I have 2 Classic 250's, one solar and one wind (Bergey 1kw).  The charge parameters are all the same, the solar classic is the master in follow me.  If the master is in Absorb the slave will still be in Bulk mppt.  This affects the aux functions (dump loads only) on the slave...no aux1 function.

When master hits float the slave follows and the aux functions operate as required.  It's not a big problem because most dump loading is done with the aux from the master cc. 

Am I worrying about something that is operating as expected?  Just noticed it recently after 7 years of co-operating operation.

Thanks

boB

Quote from: ralph day on March 15, 2023, 08:02:01 AMI have 2 Classic 250's, one solar and one wind (Bergey 1kw).  The charge parameters are all the same, the solar classic is the master in follow me.  If the master is in Absorb the slave will still be in Bulk mppt.  This affects the aux functions (dump loads only) on the slave...no aux1 function.

When master hits float the slave follows and the aux functions operate as required.  It's not a big problem because most dump loading is done with the aux from the master cc. 

Am I worrying about something that is operating as expected?  Just noticed it recently after 7 years of co-operating operation.

Thanks


Hi Ralph.  Interesting how we can go years without noticing something like that...

There will be a slight amount of voltage hysteresis between a controller's target Absorb voltage and below, where the controller should think it is still in Bulk (MPPT) and not in Absorb.

I am thinking that your Classic that is in Bulk is not reading the same battery voltage as the one that is in Absorb.  The only reason for Master BTW is for the battery temperature reading which is sent to the other controllers in the Follow-Me loop.

But at the same time, I wonder why the slave CC cannot bring its battery voltage reading back up to Absorb by itself ?   Was there a large load on the system too ?  Is the slave's PV input lower enough power that that controller might not be able to bring its battery voltage up a wee bit more ?

You could of course offset the battery voltage reading slightly but in the end, this doesn't matter as long as at least one of the controllers can stay in Absorb for the target time.  The batteries will still be charged properly.  This is why we don't pay a lot of attention to this behavior. 

Yes, it is normal and OK for it to work that way  EXCEPT for the Aux output control as you described.

Try offsetting the voltage reading slightly, but not too much if possible.  Maybe a couple of tenths of a volt ?

boB
K7IQ 🌛  He/She/Me

ralph day

Hi boB
The slave cc input is the wind turbine, so it's not consistent.  Perhaps the up down variation has a part in the observed results.  You can see input vary by hundreds of watts in 5 seconds when the turbine furls or the gust drops.  As I said, it's not a real problem since I only use the solar cc aux control for dump loads most of the time (99%).

The two relay controlled dump load outlets were installed before I purchased your wonderful Clipper!   A couple of 1kw baseboard heaters controlled by the cc were nowhere near as effective and useful as the Clipper.

Wizbandit

ABSORB is not a Follow-Me MODE.  Each Classic must get to ABSORB on its own.  If one remains in BULK then you have settings difference causing this.  A Classic in ABSORB will also not follow any in BULK, going back to BULK happens individually on each Classic if the ABSORB setting can't be maintained. A follow-Me transition from FLOAT to BULK can happen but any Classic in ABSORB will ignore this and only go back to bulk on its own from the above mentioned condition.

So that being said, if you have a Classic in BULK and one or more in ABSORB the one in BULK has a settings issue of too high an ABSORB voltage or the one(s) in ABSORB are too low.  Voltage mismatch between units can and is most likely the cause.

ralph day

Thanks all
So what usually happens is the solar Classic will transition to absorb and the wind Classic remains in Bulk.  When the solar transitions to float the wind follows to float.

When the solar is in absorb and the wind is in bulk it's not a problem since the solar controller just adjusts it's output (lowers it) while the wind unit is going up and down as wind is wont to do.  It would be interesting to see graphs of this...as one goes up the other drops down.

So, my non problem is solved.  It's not really a problem after all.


Thanks
Ralph

ClassicCrazy

Quote from: ralph day on March 22, 2023, 08:00:00 AMThanks all
So what usually happens is the solar Classic will transition to absorb and the wind Classic remains in Bulk.  When the solar transitions to float the wind follows to float.

When the solar is in absorb and the wind is in bulk it's not a problem since the solar controller just adjusts it's output (lowers it) while the wind unit is going up and down as wind is wont to do.  It would be interesting to see graphs of this...as one goes up the other drops down.

So, my non problem is solved.  It's not really a problem after all.


Thanks
Ralph
Not sure how much you would want to put into seeing the graphs, but it is possible to graph all three controller and states, etc together using Classic to MQTT - and having other programs like Grafana get the data and with that you can customize graphs how ever you like.
Info here https://github.com/ClassicDIY/ClassicMQTT and also more on open source software section of forums here too.
Larry
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable

ralph day

Thanks for the suggestion Larry.  But I think I"ll just stand there and watch the output on each screen as they change...or maybe video it.  The 2 controllers are only a couple of feet apart.  2 phones videoing, one for each controller, just to satisfy my curiosity.

Many people on this forum are much more into monitoring and such, I haven't ever updated firmware on anything in 20 years.  I figure if it's performing as it should, leave it alone.  Like the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Ralph

ClassicCrazy

Quote from: ralph day on March 23, 2023, 08:16:56 AMThanks for the suggestion Larry.  But I think I"ll just stand there and watch the output on each screen as they change...or maybe video it.  The 2 controllers are only a couple of feet apart.  2 phones videoing, one for each controller, just to satisfy my curiosity.

Many people on this forum are much more into monitoring and such, I haven't ever updated firmware on anything in 20 years.  I figure if it's performing as it should, leave it alone.  Like the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Ralph
I sort of get that don't touch stuff - but there are a lot of bugs that get fixed and new features added quite often via firmware updates.
Larry
system 1
Classic 150 , 5s3p  Kyocera 135watt , 12s Soneil 2v 540amp lead crystal for 24v pack , Outback 3524 inverter
system 2
 5s 135w Kyocero , 3s3p 270w Kyocera  to Classic 150 ,   8s Kyocera 225w to Hawkes Bay Jakiper 48v 15kwh LiFePO4 , Outback VFX 3648 inverter
system 3
KID / Brat portable