Wind Classic odd behavior.

Started by TomW, April 24, 2013, 04:29:29 PM

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TomW

Chris;

Thanks a bunch. Will slip it in there tomorrow see if it helps.

I see where you are coming from and it is a lot different than my approach. I had been messing with the one I posted trying to get it to load the turbine and it was a little closer to yours before it stopped working as expected.

Be nice if there was a "Classic Wind Tracks for Dummies" document someplace. Even a document with some explanation on  how to go about it from scratch. I just took a WAG and it actually worked fairly well most of the time but when battery volts got high  it ignored the input voltage.

Thanks.

Tom
Do NOT mistake me for any kind of "expert".

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


24 Trina 310 watt modules, SMA SunnyBoy 7.7 KW Grid Tie inverter.

I thought that they were angels, but much to my surprise, We climbed aboard their starship and headed for the skies

ChrisOlson

Quote from: TomW on April 27, 2013, 11:06:36 PM
I just took a WAG and it actually worked fairly well most of the time but when battery volts got high  it ignored the input voltage.

I have a sneaking suspicion that's because your first step is way too low on voltage (below system nominal).  And then you got a big gap from 4 amps to 24 amps output with the voltage basically "clamped" at 29.  The turbine probably goes above 29 volts really fast so the controller ends up in never-never land with an I-V curve that doesn't make sense.

Anyway, try that revised power curve and see if it "fixes" it.  I'm pretty sure it will, and then you can tweak the voltages as necessary to make it run the way you want.  But leave the amps steps alone.
--
Chris

TomW

Chris;

Ok, slipped your wind track in the Wind Classic. No change.

Wind is not kicking in much but have seen 45 volts in with no amps out.

Tried to get a screenshot of the Local App but by the time I did it had dropped to 41 and Battery volts was 27.



It is not a Local App issue as the MNGP said the same thing.

Makes me doubt it is a Wind Track issue?

Just an update.

Tom
Do NOT mistake me for any kind of "expert".

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


24 Trina 310 watt modules, SMA SunnyBoy 7.7 KW Grid Tie inverter.

I thought that they were angels, but much to my surprise, We climbed aboard their starship and headed for the skies

ChrisOlson

Dang.  You got two Classics there, Tom?  I know it's a bit of a hassle.  But I'm wondering if you could swap them around and see if happens with the other one?  I got that same firmware in my controllers and no problems at all, so I don't see how it could be a firmware issue.  But at least swapping the controllers around, and if it happens with two different controllers, that pretty much eliminates the controller as being the problem, and it's something else.

If the other controller works normal, then I'm going to say you got an issue with that one controller.
--
Chris

TomW

Quote from: ChrisOlson on April 28, 2013, 11:42:42 AM
Dang.  You got two Classics there, Tom?  I know it's a bit of a hassle.  But I'm wondering if you could swap them around and see if happens with the other one?  I got that same firmware in my controllers and no problems at all, so I don't see how it could be a firmware issue.  But at least swapping the controllers around, and if it happens with two different controllers, that pretty much eliminates the controller as being the problem, and it's something else.

If the other controller works normal, then I'm going to say you got an issue with that one controller.
--
Chris

Chris;

Yes, 2 Classics. You should know better than most that this is an addiction that is never truly satisfied! Kind of a pain to swap them around as the cabling is spread out  Very soon I am upgrading (again again) to add stacked FX2524, autotransformer and Epanel to get the 240 VAC we need for the washer / dryer and the well submersible pump.  That gets us closer to energy independence should the need arise due to energy chaos in our "golden years".

When that happens I will have the gear placed such that swapping is easy. Too much Spring (finally) work here on the homestead. Cleaning out terraces, building fence, well, you know the routine on the land, I am sure. The upgrade will be a week or so away and I can run the turbine direct to batteries so the priority is getting the Solar reset issue tracked down.

Youth is wasted on the young. I get it now, too late as usual.

Thanks.

Tom
Do NOT mistake me for any kind of "expert".

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


24 Trina 310 watt modules, SMA SunnyBoy 7.7 KW Grid Tie inverter.

I thought that they were angels, but much to my surprise, We climbed aboard their starship and headed for the skies

ChrisOlson

Yeah, but how about wire nutting some temporary jumper wires from the incoming high voltage services for the solar and wind to get the high voltage DC from one controller to the other?  Just to try it and verify if it's a controller problem or if it's something else.  Actually swapping out the controllers can be a pain if they're all conduit hooked up like mine are.  But the battery side is fine and shouldn't have to be changed, so all you really have to do is swap out the incoming sources to see what it does.
--
Chris

TomW

OK, folks here we go.

Midnite sent a fresh Classic which I finally got around to using after a major upgrade for stacking and improved output power.

It worked as expected with Chris' Wind Track for my turbine. Then, while trying to get follow me to work I updated the wind Classic firmware from 1340 to 1370 the same as the solar Classic. Now it never gets out of "resting" mode and lets the turbine freewheel exactly like first one which I had updated before I used it.

Just another piece of the puzzle. Makes me think something with 1370 breaks the Wind Track ability?

Tom
Do NOT mistake me for any kind of "expert".

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


24 Trina 310 watt modules, SMA SunnyBoy 7.7 KW Grid Tie inverter.

I thought that they were angels, but much to my surprise, We climbed aboard their starship and headed for the skies

boB

Quote from: TomW on May 23, 2013, 03:42:18 PM
OK, folks here we go.

Midnite sent a fresh Classic which I finally got around to using after a major upgrade for stacking and improved output power.

It worked as expected with Chris' Wind Track for my turbine. Then, while trying to get follow me to work I updated the wind Classic firmware from 1340 to 1370 the same as the solar Classic. Now it never gets out of "resting" mode and lets the turbine freewheel exactly like first one which I had updated before I used it.

Just another piece of the puzzle. Makes me think something with 1370 breaks the Wind Track ability?

Tom

Well, 1370 is working fine in other wind applications.

From what I am seeing, I think you may have a wiring issue.

Make sure, first of all, that your negative connections between all your power
terminal blocks are solid and good.

Any other path the negative current tries to take, like through a communications
cable, is asking for trouble.

Updating code sort of makes you bump and move wires around and that
alone might jiggle a previously OK connection into a high resistance state
and not be very visible to the naked eye.

I'm not saying this is definitely your problem, but I do know you had
a PTC (resettable fuse) open up on another Classic which indicates a
possible loose negative.

boB
K7IQ 🌛  He/She/Me

TomW

boB;

I checked every DC connection in the panels, Classics  and the Clipper plus the earth grounds. All tight and secure.

I have the USB cables coming out of the Classics thru the holes in the side so I was not inside the panels making connections to upgrade from 1340 to 1370.

Not sure what else to check?

Thanks.

Tom
Do NOT mistake me for any kind of "expert".

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


24 Trina 310 watt modules, SMA SunnyBoy 7.7 KW Grid Tie inverter.

I thought that they were angels, but much to my surprise, We climbed aboard their starship and headed for the skies

TomW

It must have been a combination of things because it is working now with battery voltage somewhat lower. It must have decided it did not need to push power into the batteries. All happened at the same time so I immediately blamed the upgrade.

Thanks for the feedback.

Tom
Do NOT mistake me for any kind of "expert".

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


24 Trina 310 watt modules, SMA SunnyBoy 7.7 KW Grid Tie inverter.

I thought that they were angels, but much to my surprise, We climbed aboard their starship and headed for the skies

dgd

Quote from: boB on May 23, 2013, 05:05:03 PM

but I do know you had
a PTC (resettable fuse) open up on another Classic which indicates a
possible loose negative.

Any info available on conditions the  PTC will open and how to know it is open and does it reset automatically after a delay or does some person action need doing? Is there a led code that shows its status or MNGP display indication

Dgd
Classic 250, 150,  20 140w, 6 250w PVs, 2Kw turbine, MN ac Clipper, Epanel/MNdc, Trace SW3024E (1997), Century 1050Ah 24V FLA (1999). Arduino power monitoring and web server.  Off grid since 4/2000
West Auckland, New Zealand

boB

Quote from: dgd on May 23, 2013, 07:51:17 PM

Any info available on conditions the  PTC will open and how to know it is open and does it reset automatically after a delay or does some person action need doing? Is there a led code that shows its status or MNGP display indication

Dgd


Nahhh...   The PTC is simply a "resettable" fuse,  or, i.e.,  a low value resistor with a Positive
Temperature Coefficient (PTC) that, when more current passes through it than its "trip current",
it heats up and its resistance goes WAY up and is more like an open.

Normally the PTCs in the Classic are in series with the jack's positive power pins so
if you short them to negative, this PTC opens up and keeps the Classic's internal
auxiliary power supply from being overly loaded down and hopefully keeps the
Classic processor from crashing at the same time.

These PTCs have a maximum rated voltage that can be applied across them.  It too
high of voltage is applied, they just get too hot and burn up.  Since the PTC has a
voltage rating higher than the voltage it is meant to protect, they should only burn
up if something wrong happens in the wiring and somehow, higher voltage current
passes through the PTC.

So, make sure all your negative wire connections from power terminal block
to battery negative bus bars are nice and tight and have a good connection,
especially if   the system has multiple Classics.

One bad thing that can happen if you lose a negative connection is that the
negative current will try and find another, lower resistance connection
back to the battery minus.  This might be through, say, a phone cable
connecting two or more Classics together where one Classic has a good
negative connection and the other Classic has an open or poor negative
connection to battery minus...  That  networking phone cable has a negative
lead on it and can carry current for a moment and burn up real nicely if
this happens.  If a USB cable is plugged into a Classic and the computer
is grounded and connected to battery negative, you could possibly burn out
a computer USB port.

Sure, we could put PTCs on every single negative pin on those connectors
but that would be hard to do, especially if we had to put a high voltage
PTC on them (not a small surface mount PTC !) which would have to
handle higher battery voltages instead of the normally low power
supply voltages of less than 16 volts DC or so.  No room and not
inexpensive.

So, make sure your minus wires are tight before connecting communications
cables is a safe practice.

boB
K7IQ 🌛  He/She/Me

LightPower

Quote from: TomW on May 23, 2013, 06:30:18 PM
It must have been a combination of things because it is working now with battery voltage somewhat lower. It must have decided it did not need to push power into the batteries. All happened at the same time so I immediately blamed the upgrade.

Thanks for the feedback.

Tom

I hope you have finally figured this out (I'm sure you have).
This may be a completely Rookie statement on my part, and is prob. common knowledge to all the Pros in here, but on pg. 34 of the 150 Classic Manual in the "Building a Wind Curve" Section, it states:
"....Keep in mind that the Minimum Voltage of Step 1 MUST be above the Wake-up voltage of the Classic, which is 33% higher than the Battery Voltage."
Which really confuses things for us Newbs- Cuz that means if I've got a 12volt Battery bank,
Step 1 needs to be 16-17 Volts @ 0 Amps??
And Step 2 needs to be HIGHER??
But also needs to be the Cut-in Voltage of the Turbine AND the expected Current @ Cut in?
Thanks!
j-dub
x50 FirstSolar 105w 86.2VOC CdTe Solar Panels
x1 Pre-Wired VRD unit w/ a MidNite Classic 150 wired to a  9-Blade 1600watt Freedom PMG Wind Turbine (from Missouri Wind & Solar)
x1 Whiz Bang Jr
x1 2014 Nissan Leaf EV
x1 24v 3kw BatteryEVO LifePO4 170Ah Battery Box w/ BMS
24v Midnite DIY Inverter

boB


See if this video helps to understand the wind curve editor a little bit more.

https://youtu.be/IpslcfvrT6c

K7IQ 🌛  He/She/Me