WBjr Stopped Reading Battery Current

[Vic]

The WBjr at on location has just stopped reading charge current,   after working GREAT for just over two months,   IIRC.

The green LED on the PC board does flash about every 5 seconds.
There is a temperature reading on the WB status page on the MNGP - attached to the Classic 150.

The Aux 2 menu shows WBjr as the function,  and guess that the displayed 20 C temp is probably valid,  so the Aux 2 input must be working somewhat.

20 C is the approx. ambient temp of the room and inside the DC Conduit box where the shunt and WB are located.

Did,  just for kicks,  measure the AUX 2 voltage with a DMM set to DC,  and it was reading about 12.5 V with fairly rapid variation of 300 - 400  mV or so.

The Classic had been reporting believable output current.  Did check the torque on the Shunt connection screws that mount the WB PCB -  they were tight.   Probed the Shunt terminals,   and  my Cheezy  DMM read about 0.9mV,  and the Classic,  in Bulk at that time,  read about 12 A out.

We have been running with three Skipped days,  and the system chose to do a full Absorption today,  and had been in Absorb,  but reverted to Bulk several times.

Do not know when this situation began,  first time that the WB status was viewed,  about 40 mins ago,  the Battery Current was 0.0 Amps,   and the Net was also 0,  so it must have started today with no Current data.

FWIW,  the clock was correctly set ...

There have been no power interruptions or disturbances of any kind in this system.

Could try reloading FW,  could just try reinitializing to Fact Defaults,  and then customize.  Have NOT tried the new Beta.

Am running the 10/4/13 FW for both the CL and MNGP (forget the specific version numbers.

Only one charge source on this system just now -- the Classic 150.

This system has the WB Violet lead extended to about 105" total,  but  almost all of this run is in EMT conduit with only CL RTS,  two SW inverter RTSes,  and a control cable that has its own shield.

Suggestions?   Thanks,   Vic

[boB]

does the temperature change at all ?  If you are nearby the WB jr. you can put your fingers on the Pcb near the purple wire and it should change the temp slightly if working

[Vic]

Hi boB,

Had thought of taking an electric heater to the power room to direct some heat on the WB,  but was too lazy ...

Have not seen the temp change at all.
Just now took a 1500 W electric fan forced portable heater to the power room.    Directed this heated air around the WB for a timed 5 minutes.   Absolutely no change in temp readout -- still 20 C.   The WB board was a bit warm to the touch after heating.   The Green LED still flashes.

If I turned off the PV in and Batt breakers to the Classic,  waited for a minute,  and back on,  might this reboot the WhizBanging process?

OR ...  ?     Thanks,    Vic

[Vic]

OK,   Update;

So,  set Mode to Off,  switched off PV in and Batt breakers to this Classic 150 -- S/N 3677.

When the Classic is re-powered,  the WB Status screen shows 0.0 A and -50C for a second or two,  then shows 16C and -2.5,   or so A for a few more seconds,  and then just after the Relay clicks,  and the Classic begins charging,   the current goes to 0 A and the temp display remains at 16C.

This behavior is consistent each time the Classic is re-powered.

Believe that the negative current is correct,  and it does vary a bit,  this is the correct load of the inverters on the battery.   The WBjr seems to now stop reporting current when the converter begins running (or very close to that time).

This is the only issue that I have ever seen in the past two-ish months.   Previously,   the Classic and WB have been flawless.

One additional note,  is that I have never removed the paper insulator from the MNGP's battery,  as knew that there might be periods of time when this Classic might be unpowered by batt or PV DC  (FWIW).

Will go back to see what happens when the PV input breaker is left in the off position,  and only the battery breaker is switched on for this Classic,  will also vary the loads on the inverters,  just to see if it is the Converter running/charging process seems to be the variable that causes the WB to stop reporting near real-time current.

May well try to get the Kid running today,  if there are few interruptions here.

I suppose that,  for whatever reason,   the issue could be NOISE on the extended WB's extended violet wire into the Cl's Aux 2 imput.   Could try some form of shielding.    Although,  absolutely nothing has changed in the routing of this lead.

Thanks,     Vic

[Vic]

OK,   The WB reports real-time current and temperature reliably,  ONLY when the input relay is open.   When it closes,  the WBjr reporting ceases.

Believe that just after this relay closes,  the converter begins running.

SO,  it is my GUESS that this is an induced noise issue into the violet wire and its extension.

The Xantrex DCCB-L,  where the Shunt and WB are located,  has a bunch of PV in and out cables that are fairly long and busy,  as there are some Common-Mode chokes etc here and there in that box,  some,  quite close to the WB and the violet wire.

So,  will try to shield this cable,  in two steps --  first,  will shield the extension only,  using the case of the Classis as ONLY the connection point for this shield.  If this is no remedy,  will probably replace almost all of the violet wire with a shielded cable,   still with the return for the shield connected to the Cl case.

Will report back.   FWIW,   Thanks,    Vic

[Vic]

OK,  further Update;

Tried replacing only the violet wire extension with shielded cable.   no change,  still quits when the input relay closes,  and stays dead until Classic power removed,  and reapplied,  and then quits when the input relay closes.

Replaced all but 2.5" of the violet wire with shielded cable,  and it did work  ...

Declared victory,  but while replacing the cover on the operating Classic,  the WBjr again quit reporting current and temp.  And remained hung up,  until a reboot from no power to the Cl.

Finished installing the cover,  rebooted the Classic,  and at last observation,  was still running.

Guess that there is no periodic reboot of the WBjr ...   seems that once it quits reporting,  it might be a very long time (perhaps Midnight?)  until it might reinitialize,   and the Classic is oblivious to any non-reporting (??).

Anyway,  seems to be working just now.   Do wonder just why if worked for about two months,  and then quit,  as there have  been NO disturbances in any of the wire/cables/hardware,  or FW.

Am getting ready to bring a Kid on-line,  but all of this work has been on the top of the plywood battery box of the main system -- used as a workbench.

The first run of the Kid will be on a different battery bank in the same power room,  and none of that cable has been attached to anything,   as of yet.

FWIW,   speaking of NOISE,  sorry for my noise on this topic.    Thanks,   Vic

[offgridQLD]

Interesting,
                   I have extended the violet wire on my WBJR. I added 2000mm (78 ")  and have it running back to the classic cable tied to the outside conduit that hods the main negative cable to the inverter.

The reading have been accurate when matched with other meters and the WBJR has been online without a single drop out from when it was installed lat last year.

How about the contact where the wire terminates at the classic it's self?

Kurt

[Vic]

Hi Kurt,

Well,  early on,  did check the torque on the Aux 2 I/O screw it was tight.  And first,  replaced that run from the Classic to the violet wire junction with a new,  shielded cable,  and essentially no change.

And  BTW,  it has again quit reporting,  and is back to 0.0 A and some fixed temp --  22C,  IIRC.

Seems to run for some time,  and then quits,  until the Classic is powered down,  to repeat the process.

Do not know,  and it is a bit of a tedious process R & Ring the WBjr,  as it is deep within the guts of the DC conduit box.    And if any of the little bitty hardware gets dropped,   it most probably will be gone forever.

Yesterday,  during its once per four day full charge cycle,  it did not end Absorb,  and seemed to me that the EA value was low enough to end it.

SO,  probably should return to CC EA ending Absorb until there is more clarity on what is up.

I,  too,  have had no previous problems whatsoever with the WBjr's reporting of current for two months (IIRC),  until what was noticed yesterday and today  (other than the well-known current Jitter necessitating a somewhat higher EA value to be set).

Know that boB and crew are very busy on important tasks.
Thanks,     Vic

[Vic]

My WBjr  has stopped working (at least with this one Classic).

It can be reawakened by powering the Classic down,  and back on,  but it seems to quit when the input relay in the Classic closes.

Yesterday,   did notice that the green LED on the WB was flashing very quickly and randomly --  had not noticed that before.

Am out of ideas,  and have reverted to using CC EA to terminate Absorb,  as,  previously,  when the CC Absorb current seemed low enough for the transition to Float to occur,   the CC remained in Absorb.

Have no idea the problem,  where it is,   or what might be done to fix it,  but the WBjr does have a neat green LED that still flashes every 5 seconds,   which is cool.

FWIW,  Thanks,          Vic

[Halfcrazy]

Vic
I think we may want to send a new WBjr? Email me your address and I will make it happen Monday. I know the rapid flash is a sign of bad communication on the WBjr I believe.

[Vic]

OK Ryan,   will do.

Thanks!   Vic

[boB]

Vic, can you try that WB Jr. on another Classic ?  It may not be the WB Jr. but might be the Classic itself ?


BTW, FYI, etc...    IF you lose negative on your Classic, it can hurt the WB Jr. because negative will then
try to go through the WB Jr. instead.

boB

[Vic]

Hey boB,

While I could probably try the WB on another Classic,  It requires quite a bit of time to get to the Shunt that is in the Xantrex DCCB-L,  if you recall those.   Lots going on in those boxes,  wires and cables a bit in the way.   Largish Common Mode chokes for CCs etc.   And  the small hardware spacers,  etc always wanting to fly away into some cranny,  never to be seen again,  so,  for me,  it seems quite tedious.  It took less than two hours to install this WB -- which had worked flawlessly for about two months.

I would be very surprised if the Classic lost its return,  as there has been absolutely no disturbance of anything around this part of the system,  which has been running for nine years,  using an MX-60 for most of those years.   I do not recall if this Classic has two negative leads from its main terminal block,  or just one  ...   will check.  I did disturb the violet lead from the WB over the weekend,  in order to install a foil-shielded cable for the entire run to the Classic,  except for 2.5" that comes from the WB.   This particular Classic 150  was one that was refurbed S/N 3677 IIRC.
EDIT:  FWIW,  YES,  this Classic does have two neg returns one #6 AWG for the PV,  and one #6 for the Battery,  am certain that these are just in parallel.   The torque on each end is nice and tight.

Have been very,    very,   busy outside on a rain water collection addition,  and there is some chance of rain later this week,  so am rushing around.

I have another WBjr,  purchased at the same time,   in another location,  just waiting for the time to install that one.  This system powers a Wireless Access Point for others,  as well as myself,  so have a bit less flexibility about powering down that system.  I will switch to a generator to do that install,  and so on.   Also,  kinna hate to work inside the DC conduit box,  even with the Combiner switched off,  and the a battery lead disconnected,  if you know what I mean.  Did the first install of the WB with generator running at night,  just for kicks.

Sure with I had a Solar Test Bench,  and a spare Classic.  All of the solar systems are fully installed,  and a bit too many layers of wires,  cables,  chokes and thingies.

Do wish that there was more time available for testing the WB,   as well as many other things  I would enjoy doing.   Thanks,    Vic

[boB]

OK, Vic.  Thanks.

I was just suggesting that you could temporarily remove the WB wire from Aux2 and using a clip-lead or wire,
temporarily connect it to the other Classic's Aux2 input to see if that second Classic would read it.

We'll see if it works when we get it back.  I wasn't worried about losing negative.  I thought this
might have to do with the Aux2 circuitry in the Classic itself.

thanks again,
boB

[Vic]

Hi boB,

Thanks for the reply.  The second site,  here,  with Classics is 2500 feet away.

I did DMM the Aux 2 terminal on the WBed Classic,  and it was about 12.5 V DC nominal,   either with WB I/O,  or in Manual Off.

I may go to the other location and snag an oscilloscope,  as it will be more useful here than there.

More later.   Thank you very much for your comments,  and all the work on the WBjr and advances on the Battery Meter extensions of the  WB.  73  TU,   Vic