Hawkes Bay in Wisconsin

[ClassicCrazy]

Some packages arrived on this dark cold snowy evening.
They were greeted in passing by a 240v PV array as they made their way to a temporary warmer location.
The days have been very overcast for the past week and the batteries want something other than generator juice.
Perhaps in a few days the skies will clear and the batteries will be satiated with sunny solar power.
Larry

[Highflyer]

Larry,

Are you going to upgrade one of your systems, or start a new system with HB? 

Also, at 240 volts, you will see good results, but when you get over 300 and even more over 400 volts HB really shines. 

How many watts are you planning to send towards HB?  At 4000 watts, I only could get the fan to run in low on occasion. 

Best of luck up there.  I expect you will be adding a lot more panels once you see how well HB runs.

Please keep us posted.

[ClassicCrazy]

Larry,

Are you going to upgrade one of your systems, or start a new system with HB? 

Also, at 240 volts, you will see good results, but when you get over 300 and even more over 400 volts HB really shines. 

How many watts are you planning to send towards HB?  At 4000 watts, I only could get the fan to run in low on occasion. 

Best of luck up there.  I expect you will be adding a lot more panels once you see how well HB runs.

Please keep us posted.

Thanks for the info .
Right now I have a Classic with about 2.5 kw on it.
I plan on putting the PV shown in photo on the Hawkes Bay and that is around 240v 1.8 kw .
I will put the Hawkes Bay next to the Classic so I can just add it on the existing battery wiring and whizbang .
I guess I could add an additional whizbang and shunt for the Hawkes Bay later.
If I want to I could probably combine the two arrays into one since the panels are all pretty similar - so just change the Classic PV that is 3s 3p to be 8s and then put that array in series with the other one to get 480v  16s . But I would have to think about that if it would work right since the two arrays are angled a bit different.  I put the new one up a bit more to the west to take advantage of late afternoon sunlight I get in this valley this time of year. And I need to consider a -20 f VOC  to make sure it wouldn't be over 600v .
Also  I guess I could just make a temp structure to support two more pv next to the 1.8kw array to up their voltage since I have more matching pv here .
The thing is , darn cold out here now for the next week ( below zero nights, teens for high in days)  so not the best time to do some things.
My power room is unheated - though I have the 1.8kw array in that photo going directly to a baseboard resistance heater and it got the workshop up near 50 F today so that is warm enough to work on the Hawkes Bay. Hopefully the sun will be out in future week. We just got through super long overcast and last night my lithium batteries crashed on under voltage. I found out that their bms reported  SOC is not accurate at all. The Classic reported SOC for them turned out to be the one I should have been using. Anyway today the sun was out long enough to charge them up at least 50% full if not more . Classic made 8 kwh for the 15 kwh lithium pack.
At least I won't be bored during the short days .
Larry

[ClassicCrazy]

Brian,
I hear that you can put two Whizbangs on one shunt . So if that is the case I will be doing that if the two whizbangs stacked fit in existing box okay.
Larry

[Highflyer]

Larry,

I would be concerned that a classic and HB might fight since they do not have comms.  No way to "Follow Me" that I know of right now.   Ryan or other techs would know way better than me on that.  I do know that Barcelona and HB communicate very well and very easily.  I believe the Midnite comm box will allow for comms between all those controllers when available.  I bet boB or Ryan would know more.

I also bet you will be adding more panels when you see just how easily HB handles a 1.8kW array.  I have had over 4000 watts on my HB and I have room to spare.  I am planning to go to 6400 watts when able.

Have fun!

[boB]

Larry,

I would be concerned that a classic and HB might fight since they do not have comms.  No way to "Follow Me" that I know of right now.   Ryan or other techs would know way better than me on that.  I do know that Barcelona and HB communicate very well and very easily.  I believe the Midnite comm box will allow for comms between all those controllers when available.  I bet boB or Ryan would know more.

I also bet you will be adding more panels when you see just how easily HB handles a 1.8kW array.  I have had over 4000 watts on my HB and I have room to spare.  I am planning to go to 6400 watts when able.

Have fun!

Eventually, Classics and HB and Barceolonas and Rosies will be able to follow each other.

Maybe this could be done using Aux outputs and Aux inputs first ?  That would be weird but kind of cool for a temporary work-around.

I like it !

boB

[ClassicCrazy]

I unboxed and laid out the controller and breaker box, then looked around for materials to use for mounting it.
I made a video of this - along with a taste of Wisconsin winter weather.
Here is the youtube link to part one  video - I didn't get very far with it today but progress a little bit at a time !
https://youtu.be/kY7Xc6Ob8mg
and it is snowing another couple inches tonight so I get to sweep off the pv again in the morning.
But the weather forecast promises some real sunshine tomorrow.
Larry

[Highflyer]

Larry,

I found mounting the breaker box on the wall first and letting gravity seat the HB on top worked well for me. 

It sure is fun to watch others figure out what works best for them.  Keep us informed!

[ClassicCrazy]

Larry,

I found mounting the breaker box on the wall first and letting gravity seat the HB on top worked well for me. 

It sure is fun to watch others figure out what works best for them.  Keep us informed!

I took your advice Brian - and glad I did. Working by myself it would have been really hard to get it hung up if I already had it all mounted together.
It was hard enough for me as it was since carpentry isn't my best skill !
I put the backboard up, then mounted the bottom breaker box , then it was much easier to be able to put the heavier Hawkes Bay controller on top of that and not have to hold it until I got the screws in.
The sun was out here all day ( hurray ! )  so the room warmed up very nicely.
The power that would be going into the Hawkes Bay was going directly into 240v resistance baseboard heater.
When I wire this up , I want to have a diversion route for the PV input to be able to go directly to the baseboard heater.
The thought was that maybe I can have an igbt block switch it using the Aux of the controller to send excess over to the heater.
But that is down the road - for now just getting it hooked up to the batteries will be nice.
As seen in the photo - the Hawkes Bay dwarfs the Classic in size.

[ClassicCrazy]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words.
So I made a video with a thousand words . Basically I showed my existing Classic wiring and pondered how to wire the Hawkes Bay into it.
I welcome free advice !
I also showed the PV that is going into the Classic and the new PV array that will go into the Hawkes Bay.
And I talked a bit about how I had to jump start my lithium batteries when they shut down the other day using my ebike charger along with future Riden power supply option.
Still cold and another no sun day here in Wisconsin !
https://youtu.be/iEIPlfiZtC8
Larry

[Vic]

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the video of your systems.

Seems that your primary concern was, the battery breaker,  from the HB, to the battery.

I would leave the 125 A HB's breaker in place, and add a breaker that would protect the cable that is used from that added breaker to the Li batteries.

Being one who has used only breakers as disconnects and protection in our LA battery off-grid systems,  I have been a bit slow to want to adopt using fast fusing at the Li battery end of the cicuit.

Class T, and other fast fusing seems to be all the rage in the DIY LiFePO4 circles.  This can add some protection,  but at the cost of increased voltage drops in the fuses and connections,  and can reduce reliability,  and possible create added points of exposure of the battery circuit, to accidential shorting,  etc.

Personally have gotten Class T fuses, and holders for our Li battery backup system (backup to the FLA off grid batterries),  and may use them,  but,  to me circuit breakers that have high AIC ratings (like MNEDC 175/250 A), should be enough protection, for catastrophic failures ...   IMO.

You might want to consider PV "Isolator" HV switches for your PV input Disconnect,  and, to switch the PV input from the HB, to your baseboard heater.  Wind-Sun has some of these.

There are many Isolator switch configurations available,  here is just one of them:
https://www.solar-electric.com/imo-si32-pel64r-4-true-dc-solar-isolator.html

EDIT:   I have had one bit of a conern, in simply switching the baseboard heater, from the HB, to the heater.  Think that a double pole switch would be required,  as you might not want to risk of unintentionally switch the heater onto the PV input of the HB,  with the HB still connected  ...  wonder if the HB might be damaged,  perhaps "thinking" that its PV input had been SHORTED to ground.  You and others have successfully used excess PV power DIverrsion using IGBTs, and FET switches,  but   ....   just a wonderment  ... <

Just a stream of unconciousness,  for now,  more later.  Keep warm!  73, Vic

[ClassicCrazy]

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the video of your systems.

Seems that your primary concern was, the battery breaker,  from the HB, to the battery.

I would leave the 125 A HB's breaker in place, and add a breaker that would protect the cable that is used from that added breaker to the Li batteries.

Being one who has used only breakers as disconnects and protection in our LA battery off-grid systems,  I have been a bit slow to want to adopt using fast fusing at the Li battery end of the cicuit.

Class T, and other fast fusing seems to be all the rage in the DIY LiFePO4 circles.  This can add some protection,  but at the cost of increased voltage drops in the fuses and connections,  and can reduce reliability,  and possible create added points of exposure of the battery circuit, to accidential shorting,  etc.

Personally have gotten Class T fuses, and holders for our Li battery backup system (backup to the FLA off grid batterries),  and may use them,  but,  to me circuit breakers that have high AIC ratings (like MNEDC 175/250 A), should be enough protection, for catastrophic failures ...   IMO.

You might want to consider PV "Isolator" HV switches for your PV input Disconnect,  and, to switch the PV input from the HB, to your baseboard heater.  Wind-Sun has some of these.

There are many Isolator switch configurations available,  here is just one of them:
https://www.solar-electric.com/imo-si32-pel64r-4-true-dc-solar-isolator.html

EDIT:   I have had one bit of a conern, in simply switching the baseboard heater, from the HB, to the heater.  Think that a double pole switch would be required,  as you might not want to risk of unintentionally switch the heater onto the PV input of the HB,  with the HB still connected  ...  wonder if the HB might be damaged,  perhaps "thinking" that its PV input had been SHORTED to ground.  You and others have successfully used excess PV power DIverrsion using IGBTs, and FET switches,  but   ....   just a wonderment  ... <

Just a stream of unconciousness,  for now,  more later.  Keep warm!  73, Vic

Good points Vic.
I do have some very large heavy duty dc  fuses that I salvaged from an elevator tear down. That had huge dc motors to run it. But I haven't used those fuses on anything yet. I will have to dig them out sometime and look at their ratings - I think 100 amps rated at least.
The only reason I wouldn't use the 125 amp breaker for now is if I don't have any appropriate wire and connectors around. I think I do though . It needs #1 awg wire . I have a nice wire collection around here - just need to dig around in the storage.
I don't have the plan for the pv diversion around the Hawkes Bay yet.   Maybe just breakers as switches to begin with but I need to draw out my idea on paper .
Larry

[Vic]

Hi Larry,

Personally,  would leave the 125 A HB breaker in place, and use it.

On the other end of the cable that is connected to that 125 A breaker,  would add a smaller breaker,  near the Li battery, which will protect the cable for the current that the HB will really be able to produce.

If the PV array could only produce 4 kW output under cold windy sunny days (for example),  then perhaps #4,  or #2 AWG,  should suffice,  with an 80 Amp Panel Mount breaker.

Later,  just a thought.   Vic

[ClassicCrazy]

I think I get what you are saying Vic. I will think about that option.
Larry

[Vic]

And, Larry,

Regarding the WbJr,  MN includes LONG screws with the Wb, that might allow stacking, two Wbs on your shunt.

Have never done this,  but the mounting hardware is 8-32 threading.

It has been SO long ago that many of us installed our Wbs,  that its installation is too distant a memory, here.
Wb Manual:
https://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/10-264-1_REV_F.pdf

Keep warm, and out of the WX,  Larry,  and all others.  Still some sun here in CA,  and temps climbing.   73   take care  ...  Seasons Greetings   errrrr   Merry Christmas and HNY,  Vic